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I'm not entirely convinced by that explanation alone because plenty of other ultra-premium menu items (like fancy steak or vintage wines) tend to have their pri

I'm not entirely convinced by that explanation alone because plenty of other ultra-premium menu items (like fancy steak or vintage wines) tend to have their prices listed when seafood aren't, and oftentimes I find the market price is not wholly unreasonable. I suspect at least some of the reasoning has to be in managing consumers' expectations for stable prices/availability, and also for size, since serving a quarter will cost the restaurant much more than an entire deuce. Also, how come you responded to my comment about lobsters and not my email about containers?? (kidding mostly... but do let me know if you want to chat containers)

tptacek 2y ago
I'm not saying M.P. is used primarily as a Veblen device to attract customers, only that it has that effect. Lobsters are M.P. in part because they're seasonal; they really do have variable prices. The kinds of restaurants that have M.P. menu items are generally working within pretty strict food cost percentage parameters.
- NaOH 2y ago
  I agree with all your points, and as someone still in the food industry I'd add that the use of Market Price on menus often comes down to something mundane: The Market Price items fluctuate too much between frequent purchases made by the restaurant and those establishments usually don't want the not-cheap expense of new copies of the menu printed that often.
  - Ylpertnodi 2y ago
    >those establishments usually don't want the not-cheap expense of new copies of the menu printed that often. It's nearly 2025 and qr codes are a thing. "Scan this code for the current MP (market price)/ TOD (time of day price)/ HTBF (how the boss feels price)/ WBTYAP (we've been tracking your amazon purchases)/ WR (wrong race [...etc] price." As it'll all be on your phone, it'll be up to you to hide, or show, your emotions as the $€££ (sell) price comes up.
    - NaOH 2y ago
      I can only speak about my native United States. Indeed, QR codes are a thing, yet the high-end restaurants that are apt to list a menu item as Market Price are also places where there's an emphasis on service (along with the food/drink offerings and the atmosphere of the establishment). As of now, asking customers in such places to do that isn't considered appropriate. Certainly, that may change, as standards always shift over time.
      - mhb 2y ago
        Fine. So when the high-end server arrives to announce the high-end specials, he can tell you the market prices without prompting. Never have seen that, though.
        tptacek 2y ago
        They're going to tell you if you ask. That's literally what "M.P." on a menu means. It's not menu roulette.
        mhb 2y ago
        I understand. But if they told you the price regardless of whether someone asks, it would address all the potential reasons weitendorf suggested about not wanting to ask. They're happy to tell me the specials. There aren't usually more than a couple of things that are "M.P.". They can go the extra mile and tell me those.
        tptacek 2y ago
        They almost always ask if you want to hear the specials. They're happy to tell you the market prices too! That's what they're there for!
        mhb 2y ago
        Yeah, I get it. They're not there to be happy. They're there to make the customers happy. Here is what weitendorf's concerns were: weitendorf> but it discourages me from ordering them because I don't want to 1. ask the price (when you're with people you don't know well it brings attention to you possibly spending more than they would on the meal, and can make you come across as a bit overly focused on price/money - could be interpreted as rude or poor manners) 2. potentially say no based on the price and deal with related social vibes that might put off + come up with a backup on the menu 3. not ask for the price at all and be handed a surprisingly large bill. Some of the times I have asked, the waiter will have to physically leave to go check the price, which is also something I want to avoid.

tptacek 2y ago

I'm not saying M.P. is used primarily as a Veblen device to attract customers, only that it has that effect. Lobsters are M.P. in part because they're seasonal; they really do have variable prices. The kinds of restaurants that have M.P. menu items are generally working within pretty strict food cost percentage parameters.

NaOH 2y ago
I agree with all your points, and as someone still in the food industry I'd add that the use of Market Price on menus often comes down to something mundane: The Market Price items fluctuate too much between frequent purchases made by the restaurant and those establishments usually don't want the not-cheap expense of new copies of the menu printed that often.
- Ylpertnodi 2y ago
  >those establishments usually don't want the not-cheap expense of new copies of the menu printed that often. It's nearly 2025 and qr codes are a thing. "Scan this code for the current MP (market price)/ TOD (time of day price)/ HTBF (how the boss feels price)/ WBTYAP (we've been tracking your amazon purchases)/ WR (wrong race [...etc] price." As it'll all be on your phone, it'll be up to you to hide, or show, your emotions as the $€££ (sell) price comes up.
  - NaOH 2y ago
    I can only speak about my native United States. Indeed, QR codes are a thing, yet the high-end restaurants that are apt to list a menu item as Market Price are also places where there's an emphasis on service (along with the food/drink offerings and the atmosphere of the establishment). As of now, asking customers in such places to do that isn't considered appropriate. Certainly, that may change, as standards always shift over time.
    - mhb 2y ago
      Fine. So when the high-end server arrives to announce the high-end specials, he can tell you the market prices without prompting. Never have seen that, though.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        They're going to tell you if you ask. That's literally what "M.P." on a menu means. It's not menu roulette.
        mhb 2y ago
        I understand. But if they told you the price regardless of whether someone asks, it would address all the potential reasons weitendorf suggested about not wanting to ask. They're happy to tell me the specials. There aren't usually more than a couple of things that are "M.P.". They can go the extra mile and tell me those.
        tptacek 2y ago
        They almost always ask if you want to hear the specials. They're happy to tell you the market prices too! That's what they're there for!
        mhb 2y ago
        Yeah, I get it. They're not there to be happy. They're there to make the customers happy. Here is what weitendorf's concerns were: weitendorf> but it discourages me from ordering them because I don't want to 1. ask the price (when you're with people you don't know well it brings attention to you possibly spending more than they would on the meal, and can make you come across as a bit overly focused on price/money - could be interpreted as rude or poor manners) 2. potentially say no based on the price and deal with related social vibes that might put off + come up with a backup on the menu 3. not ask for the price at all and be handed a surprisingly large bill. Some of the times I have asked, the waiter will have to physically leave to go check the price, which is also something I want to avoid.