6 ms·

Samsung all but guarantees no one will update to Android 4.0

16 points by ukdm 14y ago

lomegor 14y ago
That title is really confusing. Samsung is not guaranteeing no one will update to Android 4.0?
- mtgx 14y ago
  I think he means most people won't know how to update from Kies or something, and that OTA updates would've been preferred.
  - wkdown 14y ago
    I guess I can understand the bit about not wanting to pay for data overages when downloading over 3G/4G. But why not offer a wifi option instead of forcing the use of bloatware?
    - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
      There's an even easier solution: AT&T serves the updates from within their network (during off-peak hours), and doesn't charge the user for it. The occasional extra 100MB per user seems like a small price to pay to keep the phones updated, especially if said updates come with better network handling (easing AT&T's burden) or patching up security holes.
      - gonzo 14y ago
        IF, not since
      - wkdown 14y ago
        I assume AT&T sees even a small price being too much. Better to inconvenience the users.
- huggyface 14y ago
  The title is terrible and misleading. The linked article itself is poorly written, confusing, and misleading. The AT&T Note 4.0 upgrade is happening over Kies, a desktop piece of software not unlike iTunes. Fullstop. How that turned into the ridiculous title is rather bizarre.
- creamyhorror 14y ago
  "all but X" is an English expression meaning "almost X" or "pretty much X". "The work is all but done" = "The work is almost done". I know, it confused me too when I was younger. "anything but X" is the opposite. It means "absolutely not X".
TorKlingberg 14y ago
Are major version iOS updates done Over The Air, or do they require connecting to iTunes? Does AT&T give the bandwidth for free? I suspect the real reason is that it is harder to reflash an OS from inside, and a higher risk of getting stuck in some bad state. Not impossible of course, just not as simple as reflashing from outside.
- gmac 14y ago
  As of iOS5, updates are OTA, and I believe only a diff is downloaded.
- josephlord 14y ago
  I'm not sure if you can do it over the telco network (you probably can), but you can certainly upgrade over Wifi since iOS 5. The procedure used on at least some products was to download the new version alongside the existing software, verify it, configure it all and then set it to be the boot version only when the install is done - then it can reboot. Until that point it will still boot the original version. You could even have a 'boot this next time only' mode and then at the conclusion of a successful boot it would set it to be the default and in the event of failure would go back to the previous version. There probably are bad cases if the power is lost at the very end but the window is quite small and you are probably safer with the phone having its own battery (don't start installing unless there is enough charge) than you are with products like TVs. I know at least one TV manufacturer used such an approach and it seems a reasonable approach for reduced risk.
- tedunangst 14y ago
  At least for some of the iOS updates, you have to be on wifi to download it.
nodata 14y ago
We need to do this differently: we need a very visible way to show the user of a particular phone how many unpatched security holes there are. This should (hopefully) lead to demand for newer versions of Android to be released everywhere (or at least backported patches).
RobAtticus 14y ago
The conclusion seems like a bit of a leap, considering how many people were willing to upgrade using iTunes for previous iOS releases. People can handle downloading software to get an OS upgrade. Also, once you get the update process started, it's not like the random screens you've never seen before are going to deter you. My main issue is I have yet to get the OSX version of Kies to work on my MBP running Snow Leopard (not sure the OS matters, but maybe it does). When I open Kies, it tells me there's an update to the software (and I agree with the article here - wtf Samsung? Put the new version on the site). Now this update will download, then ask me for my password, but after that it just hangs. It takes up 100% of the CPU and does nothing. Canceling causes Kies to restart, but no indication that the update actually took place. Then plugging my phone in it says my phone cannot be upgraded. Now I'm stuck waiting until I have access to a Windows machine to try my luck there. If AT&T doesn't want to give mobile bandwidth away for OS updates, they should have Samsung change AT&T branded devices to only allow OTA on WiFi.
- TimGebhardt 14y ago
  I second this. I noticed my MBA running hot and I figured it was because I was photo editing. I stopped but then it continued to run with fans full speed ahead. I looked at Activity Monitor and saw KiesOverWifiAgent running at 100% CPU. Uninstalled... Hardware manufacturers are the WORST software makers.
  - bitwize 14y ago
    Hardware manufacturers are the WORST software makers. Except for Apple.
- king_jester 14y ago
  > My main issue is I have yet to get the OSX version of Kies to work on my MBP running Snow Leopard This is the main problem. Connecting via cable to a computer is easy enough, but Kies is a piece of garbage. Often it fails to recognize different devices and it doesn't handle updates very smoothly in some cases. Unfortunately, these 2.x -> ICS upgrades on Galaxy SII devices requires a firmware update, which means you have to use something like Odin and a manually downloaded firmware to to the process on your own, which is a nightmare for anyone who isn't really into ROMs.
raganwald 14y ago
Isn't it possible to deliver a notification OTA but require WiFi to download it?
khyryk 14y ago
Overly dramatic title. AT&T sent me a text message when my 2.2 phone had a 2.3 update available. The instructions were clear with screenshots of every step, so the only thing needed is about 30 minutes of one's time.
- recursive 14y ago
  30 minutes too many for most cell phone owners
  - khyryk 14y ago
    Meaning they wouldn't update even if it were OTA?
    - recursive 14y ago
      If it's a single button press, people like me would start it before going to sleep or something. I'm not sure how many people are like me.
  - salgernon 14y ago
    My experience with software updates - on phones or desktops - is that I'm presented with the option to perform the update at the very instant that I need to use the device. And since it was working fine (for my purposes) before the update, I'm not likely to stop what I'm doing right now. My MacMini media machine at home is several releases behind current Lion releases because its screen is only visible when I want to watch a movie, and the rest of the time its playing music, controlled via the iTunes remote.
iuguy 14y ago
This article seems to be a bit of a moan. Is it really so bad that some people will have to download and install some software to update their Android phone? Won't someone think of the WP7 users? I appreciate that the software may suck, but here's the thing: If you install it, update the droid and uninstall it cleanly you should be fine. Protip: Do it from a VM if you can, then roll back/blat the VM.

16 points by ukdm 14y ago

lomegor 14y ago

That title is really confusing. Samsung is not guaranteeing no one will update to Android 4.0?

mtgx 14y ago
I think he means most people won't know how to update from Kies or something, and that OTA updates would've been preferred.
- wkdown 14y ago
  I guess I can understand the bit about not wanting to pay for data overages when downloading over 3G/4G. But why not offer a wifi option instead of forcing the use of bloatware?
  - ConstantineXVI 14y ago
    There's an even easier solution: AT&T serves the updates from within their network (during off-peak hours), and doesn't charge the user for it. The occasional extra 100MB per user seems like a small price to pay to keep the phones updated, especially if said updates come with better network handling (easing AT&T's burden) or patching up security holes.
    - gonzo 14y ago
      IF, not since
    - wkdown 14y ago
      I assume AT&T sees even a small price being too much. Better to inconvenience the users.
huggyface 14y ago
The title is terrible and misleading. The linked article itself is poorly written, confusing, and misleading. The AT&T Note 4.0 upgrade is happening over Kies, a desktop piece of software not unlike iTunes. Fullstop. How that turned into the ridiculous title is rather bizarre.
creamyhorror 14y ago
"all but X" is an English expression meaning "almost X" or "pretty much X". "The work is all but done" = "The work is almost done". I know, it confused me too when I was younger. "anything but X" is the opposite. It means "absolutely not X".

TorKlingberg 14y ago

Are major version iOS updates done Over The Air, or do they require connecting to iTunes? Does AT&T give the bandwidth for free? I suspect the real reason is that it is harder to reflash an OS from inside, and a higher risk of getting stuck in some bad state. Not impossible of course, just not as simple as reflashing from outside.

gmac 14y ago
As of iOS5, updates are OTA, and I believe only a diff is downloaded.
josephlord 14y ago
I'm not sure if you can do it over the telco network (you probably can), but you can certainly upgrade over Wifi since iOS 5. The procedure used on at least some products was to download the new version alongside the existing software, verify it, configure it all and then set it to be the boot version only when the install is done - then it can reboot. Until that point it will still boot the original version. You could even have a 'boot this next time only' mode and then at the conclusion of a successful boot it would set it to be the default and in the event of failure would go back to the previous version. There probably are bad cases if the power is lost at the very end but the window is quite small and you are probably safer with the phone having its own battery (don't start installing unless there is enough charge) than you are with products like TVs. I know at least one TV manufacturer used such an approach and it seems a reasonable approach for reduced risk.
tedunangst 14y ago
At least for some of the iOS updates, you have to be on wifi to download it.

nodata 14y ago

We need to do this differently: we need a very visible way to show the user of a particular phone how many unpatched security holes there are. This should (hopefully) lead to demand for newer versions of Android to be released everywhere (or at least backported patches).

RobAtticus 14y ago

The conclusion seems like a bit of a leap, considering how many people were willing to upgrade using iTunes for previous iOS releases. People can handle downloading software to get an OS upgrade. Also, once you get the update process started, it's not like the random screens you've never seen before are going to deter you. My main issue is I have yet to get the OSX version of Kies to work on my MBP running Snow Leopard (not sure the OS matters, but maybe it does). When I open Kies, it tells me there's an update to the software (and I agree with the article here - wtf Samsung? Put the new version on the site). Now this update will download, then ask me for my password, but after that it just hangs. It takes up 100% of the CPU and does nothing. Canceling causes Kies to restart, but no indication that the update actually took place. Then plugging my phone in it says my phone cannot be upgraded. Now I'm stuck waiting until I have access to a Windows machine to try my luck there. If AT&T doesn't want to give mobile bandwidth away for OS updates, they should have Samsung change AT&T branded devices to only allow OTA on WiFi.

TimGebhardt 14y ago
I second this. I noticed my MBA running hot and I figured it was because I was photo editing. I stopped but then it continued to run with fans full speed ahead. I looked at Activity Monitor and saw KiesOverWifiAgent running at 100% CPU. Uninstalled... Hardware manufacturers are the WORST software makers.
- bitwize 14y ago
  Hardware manufacturers are the WORST software makers. Except for Apple.
king_jester 14y ago
> My main issue is I have yet to get the OSX version of Kies to work on my MBP running Snow Leopard This is the main problem. Connecting via cable to a computer is easy enough, but Kies is a piece of garbage. Often it fails to recognize different devices and it doesn't handle updates very smoothly in some cases. Unfortunately, these 2.x -> ICS upgrades on Galaxy SII devices requires a firmware update, which means you have to use something like Odin and a manually downloaded firmware to to the process on your own, which is a nightmare for anyone who isn't really into ROMs.

raganwald 14y ago

Isn't it possible to deliver a notification OTA but require WiFi to download it?

khyryk 14y ago

Overly dramatic title. AT&T sent me a text message when my 2.2 phone had a 2.3 update available. The instructions were clear with screenshots of every step, so the only thing needed is about 30 minutes of one's time.

recursive 14y ago
30 minutes too many for most cell phone owners
- khyryk 14y ago
  Meaning they wouldn't update even if it were OTA?
  - recursive 14y ago
    If it's a single button press, people like me would start it before going to sleep or something. I'm not sure how many people are like me.
- salgernon 14y ago
  My experience with software updates - on phones or desktops - is that I'm presented with the option to perform the update at the very instant that I need to use the device. And since it was working fine (for my purposes) before the update, I'm not likely to stop what I'm doing right now. My MacMini media machine at home is several releases behind current Lion releases because its screen is only visible when I want to watch a movie, and the rest of the time its playing music, controlled via the iTunes remote.

iuguy 14y ago

This article seems to be a bit of a moan. Is it really so bad that some people will have to download and install some software to update their Android phone? Won't someone think of the WP7 users? I appreciate that the software may suck, but here's the thing: If you install it, update the droid and uninstall it cleanly you should be fine. Protip: Do it from a VM if you can, then roll back/blat the VM.