5 ms·

Yeah, probably not. But why would I want to survive given that case? I mean... that sounds just about as bad as actual slavery, but with the disadvantage that

Yeah, probably not. But why would I want to survive given that case? I mean... that sounds just about as bad as actual slavery, but with the disadvantage that you still have to make ends meet. And the other thing I keep hearing about that situation is that it has nothing to do with actually getting the work done, it's just to show that you're committed. And I think committed is the right word because that concept is CRAZY.

krschultz 14y ago
Any comparison between a high paid salary employee with a few weeks vacation a year and slavery gets a downvote from me.
- pyre 14y ago
  > high paid salary employee with a few weeks vacation > a year I'm not sure that we're reading the same thread. We're talking about how hard it is to get any vacation time in Japan, for any job, from low- to high-paid. 10 days of vacation equates to 2 weeks of vacation time, but from what I understand, working long hours and on the weekends is an implicit requirement of many (most?) jobs in Japan. So even getting the weekend off during that '10 days of vacation' could be problematic. Sure, it's definitely not slavery, but it sure seems highly exploitative.
  - krschultz 14y ago
    The salaryman can quit. A slave couldn't. We often focus on the fact that slaves were unpaid, but that is really the smallest injustice they faced. Materially, in the US slaves often had higher material 'quality of life' than northern (free) factory workers. They had a better diet, lower pollution, better housing, and more time off. The plantation owners effectively viewed them as an investment. Really, if you want to talk about underpaid and overworked, a more apt comparison would be factory and mine workers in the 18th century. The horror of slavery was that you had no choice in life. Who cares if you are fed well if someone else can decide to split your family up. Someone can kidnap you, drag you across an ocean (where you have a high chance of dieing) and put you in a country where you can't speak the language. Someone else can decide to move you to a new home. Someone else can decide whether or not you are allowed to read. Someone else can legally beat you. The Japanese salaryman/women can quit her job if they want to. If they don't, that is their choice, but it is a choice. That is a massive difference. Any comparison between the two really papers over the horror of slavery. Much like any Nazi comparison, it drags the quality of the discussion down.
    - pyre 14y ago
      You missed this part at the end of my post: Sure, it's definitely not slavery, but it sure seems highly exploitative Also: The salaryman can quit. A slave couldn't. If the problem is endemic to the culture, then quitting one job just to take another offers no real change in situation. To run with the slave analogy, it would be like a slave being able to choose their master, but all masters beat/rape their slaves.
    - saturn 14y ago
      > The horror of slavery was that you had no choice in life Your argument is all just semantics. Fine, slaves had no choice, and a large segment of Japanese (and other) society have no meaningful choice. Happy? Slavery is a concept, anyway. You don't have to pedantically compare every single use of the word to some pet historical incident. I think it's entirely reasonable to compare sections of the working class's lives to slavery, and your attempts to "ban" the whole topic are really misguided and inappropriate, IMO.

krschultz 14y ago

Any comparison between a high paid salary employee with a few weeks vacation a year and slavery gets a downvote from me.

pyre 14y ago
> high paid salary employee with a few weeks vacation > a year I'm not sure that we're reading the same thread. We're talking about how hard it is to get any vacation time in Japan, for any job, from low- to high-paid. 10 days of vacation equates to 2 weeks of vacation time, but from what I understand, working long hours and on the weekends is an implicit requirement of many (most?) jobs in Japan. So even getting the weekend off during that '10 days of vacation' could be problematic. Sure, it's definitely not slavery, but it sure seems highly exploitative.
- krschultz 14y ago
  The salaryman can quit. A slave couldn't. We often focus on the fact that slaves were unpaid, but that is really the smallest injustice they faced. Materially, in the US slaves often had higher material 'quality of life' than northern (free) factory workers. They had a better diet, lower pollution, better housing, and more time off. The plantation owners effectively viewed them as an investment. Really, if you want to talk about underpaid and overworked, a more apt comparison would be factory and mine workers in the 18th century. The horror of slavery was that you had no choice in life. Who cares if you are fed well if someone else can decide to split your family up. Someone can kidnap you, drag you across an ocean (where you have a high chance of dieing) and put you in a country where you can't speak the language. Someone else can decide to move you to a new home. Someone else can decide whether or not you are allowed to read. Someone else can legally beat you. The Japanese salaryman/women can quit her job if they want to. If they don't, that is their choice, but it is a choice. That is a massive difference. Any comparison between the two really papers over the horror of slavery. Much like any Nazi comparison, it drags the quality of the discussion down.
  - pyre 14y ago
    You missed this part at the end of my post: Sure, it's definitely not slavery, but it sure seems highly exploitative Also: The salaryman can quit. A slave couldn't. If the problem is endemic to the culture, then quitting one job just to take another offers no real change in situation. To run with the slave analogy, it would be like a slave being able to choose their master, but all masters beat/rape their slaves.
  - saturn 14y ago
    > The horror of slavery was that you had no choice in life Your argument is all just semantics. Fine, slaves had no choice, and a large segment of Japanese (and other) society have no meaningful choice. Happy? Slavery is a concept, anyway. You don't have to pedantically compare every single use of the word to some pet historical incident. I think it's entirely reasonable to compare sections of the working class's lives to slavery, and your attempts to "ban" the whole topic are really misguided and inappropriate, IMO.