2 ms·

"if Intel or AMD announced a new gamer CPU tomorrow that was 3x faster in most games but utterly unsafe against all Meltdown/Spectre-class vulns, how fast do yo

by lukan 2y ago

"if Intel or AMD announced a new gamer CPU tomorrow that was 3x faster in most games but utterly unsafe against all Meltdown/Spectre-class vulns, how fast do you think they'd sell out" Well, many people have gaming computers, they won't use for anything serious. So I would also buy it. And in restricted gaming consoles, I suppose the risk is not too high?

sim7c00 2y ago
you mean those consoles that can attack the rest of your devices and your neighbours via its wireless chips?
- ggu7hgfk8j 2y ago
  Speculation attacks enables code running on the machine to access data it shouldn't. I don't see how that relates to your scenario.
formerly_proven 2y ago
Consoles are hardened very well to prevent homebrew, cracking, cheating etc.
- dcow 2y ago
  But this class of vuln is about data leaking between users in a multi-user system.
  - wongarsu 2y ago
    Isn't it rather about data leaks between any two processes? Whether those two processes belong to different users is a detail of the threat model and the OS's security model. In a console it could well be about data leaks between a game with code-injection vulnerability and the OS or DRM system.
  - alexvitkov 2y ago
    They're a pain in the ass all around. Spectre allowed you to read everything paged in (including kernel memory) from JS in the browser. To mitigate it browsers did a bunch of hacks, including nerfing precision on all timer APIs and disabling shared memory, because you need an accurate timer for the exploit - to this day performance.now() rounds to 1MS on firefox and 0.1MS on Chrome. This 1MS rounding funnily is a headache for me right as we speak. On a say 240Hz monitor, for video games you need to render a frame every ~4.16ms -- 1ms precision is not enough for accurate ticker -- even if you render your frames on time, the result can't be perfectly smooth as the browser doesn't give an accurate enough timer by which to advance your physics every frame.
izacus 2y ago
Also, many games today outright install rootkits to monitor your memory (see [1]) - some heartbleed is so far down the line of credible threats on a gaming machine that its outright ludicrous to trade off performance for it. [1]:https://www.club386.com/assassins-creed-shadows-drm-wants-to-monitor-your-ram/ https://www.club386.com/assassins-creed-shadows-drm-wants-to...

by lukan 2y ago

sim7c00 2y ago

you mean those consoles that can attack the rest of your devices and your neighbours via its wireless chips?

ggu7hgfk8j 2y ago
Speculation attacks enables code running on the machine to access data it shouldn't. I don't see how that relates to your scenario.

formerly_proven 2y ago

Consoles are hardened very well to prevent homebrew, cracking, cheating etc.

dcow 2y ago
But this class of vuln is about data leaking between users in a multi-user system.
- wongarsu 2y ago
  Isn't it rather about data leaks between any two processes? Whether those two processes belong to different users is a detail of the threat model and the OS's security model. In a console it could well be about data leaks between a game with code-injection vulnerability and the OS or DRM system.
- alexvitkov 2y ago
  They're a pain in the ass all around. Spectre allowed you to read everything paged in (including kernel memory) from JS in the browser. To mitigate it browsers did a bunch of hacks, including nerfing precision on all timer APIs and disabling shared memory, because you need an accurate timer for the exploit - to this day performance.now() rounds to 1MS on firefox and 0.1MS on Chrome. This 1MS rounding funnily is a headache for me right as we speak. On a say 240Hz monitor, for video games you need to render a frame every ~4.16ms -- 1ms precision is not enough for accurate ticker -- even if you render your frames on time, the result can't be perfectly smooth as the browser doesn't give an accurate enough timer by which to advance your physics every frame.

izacus 2y ago

Also, many games today outright install rootkits to monitor your memory (see [1]) - some heartbleed is so far down the line of credible threats on a gaming machine that its outright ludicrous to trade off performance for it. [1]:https://www.club386.com/assassins-creed-shadows-drm-wants-to-monitor-your-ram/ https://www.club386.com/assassins-creed-shadows-drm-wants-to...