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Are we using enshittification for everything we don't like these days? We invented calculators, those really enshittified manual arithmetic puzzles. Private bo

Are we using enshittification for everything we don't like these days? We invented calculators, those really enshittified manual arithmetic puzzles. Private boards for this stuff makes sense anyway, it's the Internet afterall.

wiseowise 2y ago
Using LLM for this kind of thing is like using cheats or aim assist for online games. So yes, this is prime example of enshifittication.
- petercooper 2y ago
  I think the intent is important. Using LLMs to do well on the public leaderboard is like using cheats/aim assist. But learning how to use LLMs to solve complex puzzles independent of any sense of "competition" is more like when people train neural networks to drive a car in GTA or something - it's not hurting anyone and it can be a real learning experience that leads to other interesting byproducts. But, yeah, don't use LLMs to try and get 9 second solve times on the public leaderboard, it's not in the spirit of the thing and is more like taking a dictionary to a spelling bee.
- ikesau 2y ago
  enshittification isn't "things become worse" - it's the specific process of how services worsen in 3 stages: > Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a "two-sided market", where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.
  - sumeno 2y ago
    Just because that's how it was defined in a blog post doesn't mean that it's the only way to use it
    - Terr_ 2y ago
      We already have plenty of words for the ancient and generic concept of things-getting-worse, like "ruining".
ktaqhg 2y ago
No, we do not. Calculators are a whole different issue from LLMs, which plagiarize and spoonfeed whole paragraphs of thought. Enshittification occurs when previously good or excellent things are replaced by mediocre things that are good enough for those susceptible for advertising and group think. Examples are McDonalds vs. real restaurants, Disney theme parks vs. Paris, the interior of modern cars, search engine decline, software bloat etc.
- jodrellblank 2y ago
  > those susceptible for advertising and group think. That's everyone, including you, no matter how edgelordy you post about 'normies' and how you are above that. See how quickly your brain hands you "McDonalds" and "Disney" when you need an example. Yes you just used the first one that came to mind, the one that everyone would recognise, that's because billions of dollars keep McDonalds first in mind and universally recognised. And even if you make your personality "I wouldn't eat at McDonalds" that money is getting you to propagate the name on HN, just to remind people it exists and keep people talking about it.
sumeno 2y ago
Just the shitty things like using LLMs to spoil a fun competition

wiseowise 2y ago

Using LLM for this kind of thing is like using cheats or aim assist for online games. So yes, this is prime example of enshifittication.

petercooper 2y ago
I think the intent is important. Using LLMs to do well on the public leaderboard is like using cheats/aim assist. But learning how to use LLMs to solve complex puzzles independent of any sense of "competition" is more like when people train neural networks to drive a car in GTA or something - it's not hurting anyone and it can be a real learning experience that leads to other interesting byproducts. But, yeah, don't use LLMs to try and get 9 second solve times on the public leaderboard, it's not in the spirit of the thing and is more like taking a dictionary to a spelling bee.
ikesau 2y ago
enshittification isn't "things become worse" - it's the specific process of how services worsen in 3 stages: > Here is how platforms die: first, they are good to their users; then they abuse their users to make things better for their business customers; finally, they abuse those business customers to claw back all the value for themselves. Then, they die. I call this enshittification, and it is a seemingly inevitable consequence arising from the combination of the ease of changing how a platform allocates value, combined with the nature of a "two-sided market", where a platform sits between buyers and sellers, hold each hostage to the other, raking off an ever-larger share of the value that passes between them.
- sumeno 2y ago
  Just because that's how it was defined in a blog post doesn't mean that it's the only way to use it
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    We already have plenty of words for the ancient and generic concept of things-getting-worse, like "ruining".

ktaqhg 2y ago

No, we do not. Calculators are a whole different issue from LLMs, which plagiarize and spoonfeed whole paragraphs of thought. Enshittification occurs when previously good or excellent things are replaced by mediocre things that are good enough for those susceptible for advertising and group think. Examples are McDonalds vs. real restaurants, Disney theme parks vs. Paris, the interior of modern cars, search engine decline, software bloat etc.

jodrellblank 2y ago
> those susceptible for advertising and group think. That's everyone, including you, no matter how edgelordy you post about 'normies' and how you are above that. See how quickly your brain hands you "McDonalds" and "Disney" when you need an example. Yes you just used the first one that came to mind, the one that everyone would recognise, that's because billions of dollars keep McDonalds first in mind and universally recognised. And even if you make your personality "I wouldn't eat at McDonalds" that money is getting you to propagate the name on HN, just to remind people it exists and keep people talking about it.

sumeno 2y ago

Just the shitty things like using LLMs to spoil a fun competition