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It doesn't have to make you depressed and reality isn't always demotivating. Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression. I think that for many, learn

It doesn't have to make you depressed and reality isn't always demotivating. Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression. I think that for many, learning more about gun violence could be a relief because their uninformed baseline is so bad

ImaCake 2y ago
Yeah I can see how that could help for some. I guess it is just a difficult example for someone not in the USA.
lukan 2y ago
"Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression." Is that a fact? I recall from studies with pessimists and optimists, where they should self report some progress on learning something - and the reports of the pessimists were way more realistic, than those of the optimists. (But the latter probably enjoyed the whole thing)
- roenxi 2y ago
  Is there any particular correlation between pessimism and depression? I'm sure there would be something on the extreme edge but I don't see why there would be anything particularly powerful there in the median case. Pessimism is more of an understanding that things will go wrong (which is often just factual correctness; any vague understanding of risk makes most people sound like pessimists). Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed. There'd be a bit of an overlap in some cases (depression would make someone an extreme pessimist), but the pessimism that comes from being realistic doesn't lead to depression.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed." It is usually more concrete in the sense of "it is hopeless, that I get into a state of happiness again". Which might or might not be correct. So calling depression not logical .. is a potential tough thing to say.
    - roenxi 2y ago
      Life is tough, unspeakably horrible things happen daily. Never feeling happiness would be on the bad end of even that spectrum. But nevertheless, as someone who is acutely aware that unspeakable horrors surround us, an accurate prediction of never feeling happiness again doesn't logically lead to feeling a sense of hopeless, so it doesn't follow that depressed people are more likely to be working from an accurate world model. The logical thing to do is to either look for ways to feel happiness or ignore it and salvage some meaning from whatever is left besides happiness. Easier said than done I know, particularly for someone who is depressed. But logic is what it is.
      - lukan 2y ago
        "But logic is what it is." Indeed. It is a abstract tool that is helpful, if the abstractions of reality are meaningful in the given context.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Yes, that is a fact. Not just the personal opinion kind, but the kind in text books, accepted by 200k therapists in the US, and supported hundreds of research papers. . As others posted, pessimism and depression different topics.

ImaCake 2y ago

Yeah I can see how that could help for some. I guess it is just a difficult example for someone not in the USA.

lukan 2y ago

"Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression." Is that a fact? I recall from studies with pessimists and optimists, where they should self report some progress on learning something - and the reports of the pessimists were way more realistic, than those of the optimists. (But the latter probably enjoyed the whole thing)

roenxi 2y ago
Is there any particular correlation between pessimism and depression? I'm sure there would be something on the extreme edge but I don't see why there would be anything particularly powerful there in the median case. Pessimism is more of an understanding that things will go wrong (which is often just factual correctness; any vague understanding of risk makes most people sound like pessimists). Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed. There'd be a bit of an overlap in some cases (depression would make someone an extreme pessimist), but the pessimism that comes from being realistic doesn't lead to depression.
- lukan 2y ago
  "Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed." It is usually more concrete in the sense of "it is hopeless, that I get into a state of happiness again". Which might or might not be correct. So calling depression not logical .. is a potential tough thing to say.
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Life is tough, unspeakably horrible things happen daily. Never feeling happiness would be on the bad end of even that spectrum. But nevertheless, as someone who is acutely aware that unspeakable horrors surround us, an accurate prediction of never feeling happiness again doesn't logically lead to feeling a sense of hopeless, so it doesn't follow that depressed people are more likely to be working from an accurate world model. The logical thing to do is to either look for ways to feel happiness or ignore it and salvage some meaning from whatever is left besides happiness. Easier said than done I know, particularly for someone who is depressed. But logic is what it is.
    - lukan 2y ago
      "But logic is what it is." Indeed. It is a abstract tool that is helpful, if the abstractions of reality are meaningful in the given context.
s1artibartfast 2y ago
Yes, that is a fact. Not just the personal opinion kind, but the kind in text books, accepted by 200k therapists in the US, and supported hundreds of research papers. . As others posted, pessimism and depression different topics.