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>learning about gun violence. Maybe this is helpful in the USA, but I hardly see how knowing anything about this counts as "personal growth"? There are plenty

>learning about gun violence. Maybe this is helpful in the USA, but I hardly see how knowing anything about this counts as "personal growth"? There are plenty of things you can know that actively make you a worse person by making you depressed and thus less engaged with things you can actively act upon.

s1artibartfast 2y ago
It doesn't have to make you depressed and reality isn't always demotivating. Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression. I think that for many, learning more about gun violence could be a relief because their uninformed baseline is so bad
- ImaCake 2y ago
  Yeah I can see how that could help for some. I guess it is just a difficult example for someone not in the USA.
- lukan 2y ago
  "Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression." Is that a fact? I recall from studies with pessimists and optimists, where they should self report some progress on learning something - and the reports of the pessimists were way more realistic, than those of the optimists. (But the latter probably enjoyed the whole thing)
  - roenxi 2y ago
    Is there any particular correlation between pessimism and depression? I'm sure there would be something on the extreme edge but I don't see why there would be anything particularly powerful there in the median case. Pessimism is more of an understanding that things will go wrong (which is often just factual correctness; any vague understanding of risk makes most people sound like pessimists). Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed. There'd be a bit of an overlap in some cases (depression would make someone an extreme pessimist), but the pessimism that comes from being realistic doesn't lead to depression.
    - lukan 2y ago
      "Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed." It is usually more concrete in the sense of "it is hopeless, that I get into a state of happiness again". Which might or might not be correct. So calling depression not logical .. is a potential tough thing to say.
      - roenxi 2y ago
        Life is tough, unspeakably horrible things happen daily. Never feeling happiness would be on the bad end of even that spectrum. But nevertheless, as someone who is acutely aware that unspeakable horrors surround us, an accurate prediction of never feeling happiness again doesn't logically lead to feeling a sense of hopeless, so it doesn't follow that depressed people are more likely to be working from an accurate world model. The logical thing to do is to either look for ways to feel happiness or ignore it and salvage some meaning from whatever is left besides happiness. Easier said than done I know, particularly for someone who is depressed. But logic is what it is.
        lukan 2y ago
        "But logic is what it is." Indeed. It is a abstract tool that is helpful, if the abstractions of reality are meaningful in the given context.
  - s1artibartfast 2y ago
    Yes, that is a fact. Not just the personal opinion kind, but the kind in text books, accepted by 200k therapists in the US, and supported hundreds of research papers. . As others posted, pessimism and depression different topics.
devops99 2y ago
[flagged]
- JackMorgan 2y ago
  Come right out and say what you mean. No sense being coy, unless you know that your hypothesis actually is encouraging hate and will not be tolerated by this community.
  - haccount 2y ago
    [dead]
  - eastbound 2y ago
    No, he shouldn’t do it, he perfectly adapted the language to the customs imposed upon us. See, customs and rules don’t change the truth. The really hateful act is to hide the causes of violence so that we naively walk into it. That causes thousands of death per hear.
    - JackMorgan 2y ago
      Veiled bigotry isn't brave, noble, or a search for truth.
      - eastbound 2y ago
        Letting people die, wait no, misinforming people so they choose the option where they die, is criminal. Which also explains why you protect and defend criminals. I’ve never understood what’s the point of harassing people until they lie about crime statistics, or even creating laws to hide the truth. What’s the point of being on the bad side?
      - Jensson 2y ago
        Statistics about neighborhoods isn't bigotry, everyone talks about where its safe and where its not, not being allowed to talk about that is insanity.

s1artibartfast 2y ago

It doesn't have to make you depressed and reality isn't always demotivating. Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression. I think that for many, learning more about gun violence could be a relief because their uninformed baseline is so bad

ImaCake 2y ago
Yeah I can see how that could help for some. I guess it is just a difficult example for someone not in the USA.
lukan 2y ago
"Poor models of reality are a Hallmark of depression." Is that a fact? I recall from studies with pessimists and optimists, where they should self report some progress on learning something - and the reports of the pessimists were way more realistic, than those of the optimists. (But the latter probably enjoyed the whole thing)
- roenxi 2y ago
  Is there any particular correlation between pessimism and depression? I'm sure there would be something on the extreme edge but I don't see why there would be anything particularly powerful there in the median case. Pessimism is more of an understanding that things will go wrong (which is often just factual correctness; any vague understanding of risk makes most people sound like pessimists). Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed. There'd be a bit of an overlap in some cases (depression would make someone an extreme pessimist), but the pessimism that comes from being realistic doesn't lead to depression.
  - lukan 2y ago
    "Depression is more of an "it is hopeless" take which is not logically sound - even if life is meaningless the sensible thing to do is leave a peaceful & cheerful existence as best can be managed." It is usually more concrete in the sense of "it is hopeless, that I get into a state of happiness again". Which might or might not be correct. So calling depression not logical .. is a potential tough thing to say.
    - roenxi 2y ago
      Life is tough, unspeakably horrible things happen daily. Never feeling happiness would be on the bad end of even that spectrum. But nevertheless, as someone who is acutely aware that unspeakable horrors surround us, an accurate prediction of never feeling happiness again doesn't logically lead to feeling a sense of hopeless, so it doesn't follow that depressed people are more likely to be working from an accurate world model. The logical thing to do is to either look for ways to feel happiness or ignore it and salvage some meaning from whatever is left besides happiness. Easier said than done I know, particularly for someone who is depressed. But logic is what it is.
      - lukan 2y ago
        "But logic is what it is." Indeed. It is a abstract tool that is helpful, if the abstractions of reality are meaningful in the given context.
- s1artibartfast 2y ago
  Yes, that is a fact. Not just the personal opinion kind, but the kind in text books, accepted by 200k therapists in the US, and supported hundreds of research papers. . As others posted, pessimism and depression different topics.

devops99 2y ago

[flagged]

JackMorgan 2y ago
Come right out and say what you mean. No sense being coy, unless you know that your hypothesis actually is encouraging hate and will not be tolerated by this community.
- haccount 2y ago
  [dead]
- eastbound 2y ago
  No, he shouldn’t do it, he perfectly adapted the language to the customs imposed upon us. See, customs and rules don’t change the truth. The really hateful act is to hide the causes of violence so that we naively walk into it. That causes thousands of death per hear.
  - JackMorgan 2y ago
    Veiled bigotry isn't brave, noble, or a search for truth.
    - eastbound 2y ago
      Letting people die, wait no, misinforming people so they choose the option where they die, is criminal. Which also explains why you protect and defend criminals. I’ve never understood what’s the point of harassing people until they lie about crime statistics, or even creating laws to hide the truth. What’s the point of being on the bad side?
    - Jensson 2y ago
      Statistics about neighborhoods isn't bigotry, everyone talks about where its safe and where its not, not being allowed to talk about that is insanity.