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So the only options are batten down the hatches (tariffs) while continuing business as usual (ICE manufacturing) inside, or open the doors and surrender (let Ch

So the only options are batten down the hatches (tariffs) while continuing business as usual (ICE manufacturing) inside, or open the doors and surrender (let China take over the auto market)? What about option 3? Stand and fight. Make an effort. Design something electric that people actually want to buy. Build out the necessary charging infra on a war footing. Shape consumer behavior with tax policy. I could accept EV tariffs if they were meant to give domestic manufacturers breathing room to catch up. I don't see that anyone has gotten the memo though.

travisporter 2y ago
Agreed. Another take has always been china doesn’t have environmental regulations so they can go faster. Is this true? on the face of it I don’t believe it because the insane cost differential would be like 10% cheaper Chinese evs not 50%. Automation was supposed to save the west from cheap labor but the Chinese manufacturers have that too
JumpCrisscross 2y ago
> Stand and fight. Make an effort. Design something electric that people actually want to buy This also requires revising U.S. regulations to be less onerous. Look at China’s export-variant EVs, see why they couldn’t be admitted into America, and question if that requirement is actually important. Because while it’s keeping Chinese EVs out, it’s also making American production uncompetitive.
m463 2y ago
I agree with you in theory, but we need more sane ways of government to support decent goals without being sucked dry by industry. It seems the government has had lots of mistakes doing that. For example, supporting the early internet buildout (carriers took money), or getting solar off the ground (early startups took money, disappeared), or whatever happened with GM.
MrHamburger 2y ago
> Build out the necessary charging infra on a war footing Why? If electric cars are the future, certainly building infrastructure will make sense for private companies. If it is not profitable for companies to build such infrastructure, then maybe electric cars are not the future but a fashion trend. > I could accept EV tariffs if they were meant to give domestic manufacturers breathing room to catch up. I don't see that anyone has gotten the memo though. China is overplaying their hand. They are having massive overcapacity in the car manufacturing, but most of the world can't afford such cars either due to price and/or due to non-existent infrastructure. You can forget on selling 30k EUR cars in Africa, India or Central Asia. You can also forget on selling such cars in most of China. So tariffs will decimate Chinese car industry.
- triceratops 2y ago
  > If it is not profitable for companies to build such infrastructure I didn't say the government would build out charging infra, did I? But they can make it easier. > most of the world can't afford such cars either due to price The sun is free. Oil costs dollars. Most of the world is dollar-constrained. Until now capturing the sun's energy was costly, but China's manufacturing scale has changed that. Their manufacturing scale has also produced EVs that are way cheaper than your average Tesla. > and/or due to non-existent infrastructure Most countries have cheaper labor and fewer environmental constraints than the developed world. If they have a reason to build infrastructure, they'll build it.

travisporter 2y ago

Agreed. Another take has always been china doesn’t have environmental regulations so they can go faster. Is this true? on the face of it I don’t believe it because the insane cost differential would be like 10% cheaper Chinese evs not 50%. Automation was supposed to save the west from cheap labor but the Chinese manufacturers have that too

JumpCrisscross 2y ago

> Stand and fight. Make an effort. Design something electric that people actually want to buy This also requires revising U.S. regulations to be less onerous. Look at China’s export-variant EVs, see why they couldn’t be admitted into America, and question if that requirement is actually important. Because while it’s keeping Chinese EVs out, it’s also making American production uncompetitive.

m463 2y ago

I agree with you in theory, but we need more sane ways of government to support decent goals without being sucked dry by industry. It seems the government has had lots of mistakes doing that. For example, supporting the early internet buildout (carriers took money), or getting solar off the ground (early startups took money, disappeared), or whatever happened with GM.

MrHamburger 2y ago

> Build out the necessary charging infra on a war footing Why? If electric cars are the future, certainly building infrastructure will make sense for private companies. If it is not profitable for companies to build such infrastructure, then maybe electric cars are not the future but a fashion trend. > I could accept EV tariffs if they were meant to give domestic manufacturers breathing room to catch up. I don't see that anyone has gotten the memo though. China is overplaying their hand. They are having massive overcapacity in the car manufacturing, but most of the world can't afford such cars either due to price and/or due to non-existent infrastructure. You can forget on selling 30k EUR cars in Africa, India or Central Asia. You can also forget on selling such cars in most of China. So tariffs will decimate Chinese car industry.

triceratops 2y ago
> If it is not profitable for companies to build such infrastructure I didn't say the government would build out charging infra, did I? But they can make it easier. > most of the world can't afford such cars either due to price The sun is free. Oil costs dollars. Most of the world is dollar-constrained. Until now capturing the sun's energy was costly, but China's manufacturing scale has changed that. Their manufacturing scale has also produced EVs that are way cheaper than your average Tesla. > and/or due to non-existent infrastructure Most countries have cheaper labor and fewer environmental constraints than the developed world. If they have a reason to build infrastructure, they'll build it.