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What about mechanical devices that simply wear out? Even electronic devices can fail due to circumstances controlled neither by you nor by the manufacturer, lik

by WJW 2y ago

What about mechanical devices that simply wear out? Even electronic devices can fail due to circumstances controlled neither by you nor by the manufacturer, like lightning strikes introducing violent transients in the grid supply. Also, cool beans that that is the minimum you'll settle on but how on earth would anyone enforce that? Open sourced software is not enough by far to make something work perpetually: the software will need to be run somewhere and most likely (since you are talking about some sort of net-connected software if this is relevant in the first place) will need security patching to keep up with CVEs. Who is going to pay for that? I don't think it will be the bankrupt entity that stopped existing 10 years ago.

Ukv 2y ago
> What about mechanical devices that simply wear out? I think wear-and-tear from usage falls under "until broken by me", which I see as intended to cover ordinary breakage that would exist even in absence of copyright and trade secrets. > Also, cool beans that that is the minimum you'll settle on but how on earth would anyone enforce that? A large part of the solution would be to stop enforcing copyright, patents, DMCA anti-circumvention clause, etc. in these cases. Companies can be legally compelled to release the server software with fines or restrictions on future sales for non-compliance. In case of bankruptcy, it can be obtained as part of the bankruptcy process going through the company's assets. > Open sourced software is not enough by far to make something work perpetually: the software will need to be run somewhere and most likely (since you are talking about some sort of net-connected software if this is relevant in the first place) will need security patching to keep up with CVEs. Some of these devices may legitimately need to be network-connected, but very few legitimately need to be Internet-connected. A local network with a Raspberry Pi running the server is likely fine in most cases. > Who is going to pay for that? I don't think it will be the bankrupt entity that stopped existing 10 years ago. I don't think the idea is to force someone to pay to keep servers up or actively maintain the software - but rather to remove artificial barriers in the way of owners/enthusiasts/repair-shops/etc. that already want to do so. Unless we're applying this retroactively, it'd be an entity currently going through bankruptcy, and their obligation is just the hand-over the source code in its current state.

by WJW 2y ago

Ukv 2y ago

> What about mechanical devices that simply wear out? I think wear-and-tear from usage falls under "until broken by me", which I see as intended to cover ordinary breakage that would exist even in absence of copyright and trade secrets. > Also, cool beans that that is the minimum you'll settle on but how on earth would anyone enforce that? A large part of the solution would be to stop enforcing copyright, patents, DMCA anti-circumvention clause, etc. in these cases. Companies can be legally compelled to release the server software with fines or restrictions on future sales for non-compliance. In case of bankruptcy, it can be obtained as part of the bankruptcy process going through the company's assets. > Open sourced software is not enough by far to make something work perpetually: the software will need to be run somewhere and most likely (since you are talking about some sort of net-connected software if this is relevant in the first place) will need security patching to keep up with CVEs. Some of these devices may legitimately need to be network-connected, but very few legitimately need to be Internet-connected. A local network with a Raspberry Pi running the server is likely fine in most cases. > Who is going to pay for that? I don't think it will be the bankrupt entity that stopped existing 10 years ago. I don't think the idea is to force someone to pay to keep servers up or actively maintain the software - but rather to remove artificial barriers in the way of owners/enthusiasts/repair-shops/etc. that already want to do so. Unless we're applying this retroactively, it'd be an entity currently going through bankruptcy, and their obligation is just the hand-over the source code in its current state.