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He's a good writer, but I think he underestimates the implicit skills that an experienced engineer has that beginners don't have. Sometimes it just seems like c

He's a good writer, but I think he underestimates the implicit skills that an experienced engineer has that beginners don't have. Sometimes it just seems like common sense, but it isn't, and the result is often a lack of empathy. To build up that empathy, being around children or the elderly probably helps. Also, helping a relative who is struggling but you're on their side. Also consider the difference between a native speaker of a language who just kind of knows how to say what they want to say, versus someone struggling to learn the language.

huijzer 2y ago
Yes probably a bit like chess masters. They surely know theory and theory can surely help, but often they just “feel” that one way is more right than another way. How does this “feeling” arise? Tons and tons of deliberate practice.
strken 2y ago
I started programming at age eight, while my brother started in his 20s. Teaching him to write C was an eye-opening experience because it showed how much I rely on vibe and feelings. He struggled with things I take for granted, like indenting his code consistently, or actually reading error messages from the compiler and using them for debugging. It took him a couple of years to get to the point where he could get a job as a programmer. This isn't surprising, because it also took me a couple of years. I had just forgotten where my starting point was.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
anal_reactor 2y ago
How can I build this empathy? I feel extremely frustrated when spending time with people less educated than myself
- michaelcampbell 2y ago
  Spend more time with people MORE educated than you.
  - ludicity 2y ago
    I am the author and was puzzling over how to respond to this, but yeah, this is basically it. I still have very little tolerance for a certain level of incompetence (don't work at a hospital if you're going to crash prod repeatedly, sorry, this isn't adult day care), but most of my readers are better software engineers than me, and every day I have to humble myself and ask one of them how to do something stupidly simple, like "Is there a better way to develop pipelines than watching GitHub Actions fail, tweak the code, repeat?"
- skybrian 2y ago
  I don't know how to avoid frustration because it often is a frustrating situation, for everyone. I think you have to accept that. But after a while I learned to stop blaming people who are in over their heads. Ideally there would be a gentle learning curve with a gradual ramp-up in difficulty, but often real life doesn't work like a video game.
- hackable_sand 2y ago
  You're not reading a book, You're writing a play.
ludicity 2y ago
Thank you for the kind words on the writing! And the implicit skills are important, it's just that reading a book is, broadly speaking, a very strong indicator of ability and a great starting point. The best engineer at my consultancy doesn't really read books due to S-tier ADHD, but has a massive amount of lived experience and has read enough documentation/high-tier blog posts that there's probably some equivalency. One of the funniest emails I ever received was from someone extremely talented that said that reading books never felt that helpful, then they reeled off the five books they had read that year. I think they accurately self-assessed that the books actually weren't that good for them, but the fact they still opened five is the discipline that brought them to the top.
- globalnode 2y ago
  > how do you know what books to read? I'm teaching myself linear algebra after failing the official class. I bought Strang's book and to me it was like reading the rantings of a madman (edit: ofc I mean "to me", as he is an accomplished mathematician), nothing made sense and it seemed all over the place. Which is strange because he seems always so highly recommended in that field. Its a visual subject for gods sake make some use of pictures! -- Anyway, not giving up I bought another one, this time from Lay and Macdonald and its like I'm reading a different subject. It makes logical sense and uses pictures to illustrate geometric points effectively without going overboard. So yeah, I cannot agree more. Sometimes its the right book you need, not just any book. edit: In summary, we need good bullshit detectors to avoid being drowning sleepwalkers ;)
  - p00dles 2y ago
    Thank you for this - I had the same experience with Strang’s book/style when I tried to learn linear algebra, maybe I’ll pick up Lay & McDonald!
- twitchard 2y ago
  Let me get this straight: you can be better than 90% of people if you just read a book, but wait, not just any book, it has to be the right book -- and also it doesn't have to be a book, it can also just be "lived experience" or technical documentation, that counts too. At this point, the thesis is more qualification than statement. Mostly what I drew from the article is that the author feels smugly superior to many of his peers, and wants an excuse ("they didn't even read a book") to morally blame them for their (perceived) shortcomings, while serving up a generous helping of false modesty on the side.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

huijzer 2y ago

Yes probably a bit like chess masters. They surely know theory and theory can surely help, but often they just “feel” that one way is more right than another way. How does this “feeling” arise? Tons and tons of deliberate practice.

strken 2y ago

I started programming at age eight, while my brother started in his 20s. Teaching him to write C was an eye-opening experience because it showed how much I rely on vibe and feelings. He struggled with things I take for granted, like indenting his code consistently, or actually reading error messages from the compiler and using them for debugging. It took him a couple of years to get to the point where he could get a job as a programmer. This isn't surprising, because it also took me a couple of years. I had just forgotten where my starting point was.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

anal_reactor 2y ago

How can I build this empathy? I feel extremely frustrated when spending time with people less educated than myself

michaelcampbell 2y ago
Spend more time with people MORE educated than you.
- ludicity 2y ago
  I am the author and was puzzling over how to respond to this, but yeah, this is basically it. I still have very little tolerance for a certain level of incompetence (don't work at a hospital if you're going to crash prod repeatedly, sorry, this isn't adult day care), but most of my readers are better software engineers than me, and every day I have to humble myself and ask one of them how to do something stupidly simple, like "Is there a better way to develop pipelines than watching GitHub Actions fail, tweak the code, repeat?"
skybrian 2y ago
I don't know how to avoid frustration because it often is a frustrating situation, for everyone. I think you have to accept that. But after a while I learned to stop blaming people who are in over their heads. Ideally there would be a gentle learning curve with a gradual ramp-up in difficulty, but often real life doesn't work like a video game.
hackable_sand 2y ago
You're not reading a book, You're writing a play.

ludicity 2y ago

Thank you for the kind words on the writing! And the implicit skills are important, it's just that reading a book is, broadly speaking, a very strong indicator of ability and a great starting point. The best engineer at my consultancy doesn't really read books due to S-tier ADHD, but has a massive amount of lived experience and has read enough documentation/high-tier blog posts that there's probably some equivalency. One of the funniest emails I ever received was from someone extremely talented that said that reading books never felt that helpful, then they reeled off the five books they had read that year. I think they accurately self-assessed that the books actually weren't that good for them, but the fact they still opened five is the discipline that brought them to the top.

globalnode 2y ago
> how do you know what books to read? I'm teaching myself linear algebra after failing the official class. I bought Strang's book and to me it was like reading the rantings of a madman (edit: ofc I mean "to me", as he is an accomplished mathematician), nothing made sense and it seemed all over the place. Which is strange because he seems always so highly recommended in that field. Its a visual subject for gods sake make some use of pictures! -- Anyway, not giving up I bought another one, this time from Lay and Macdonald and its like I'm reading a different subject. It makes logical sense and uses pictures to illustrate geometric points effectively without going overboard. So yeah, I cannot agree more. Sometimes its the right book you need, not just any book. edit: In summary, we need good bullshit detectors to avoid being drowning sleepwalkers ;)
- p00dles 2y ago
  Thank you for this - I had the same experience with Strang’s book/style when I tried to learn linear algebra, maybe I’ll pick up Lay & McDonald!
twitchard 2y ago
Let me get this straight: you can be better than 90% of people if you just read a book, but wait, not just any book, it has to be the right book -- and also it doesn't have to be a book, it can also just be "lived experience" or technical documentation, that counts too. At this point, the thesis is more qualification than statement. Mostly what I drew from the article is that the author feels smugly superior to many of his peers, and wants an excuse ("they didn't even read a book") to morally blame them for their (perceived) shortcomings, while serving up a generous helping of false modesty on the side.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]