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We have those laws. You return the faulty device to the entity you purchased it from. I bet some small-time installers that were sourcing on the grey market w

We have those laws. You return the faulty device to the entity you purchased it from. I bet some small-time installers that were sourcing on the grey market will go bankrupt because of this.

malfist 2y ago
You return a solar inverter you already have installed? Maybe purchased years ago? And in the meantime you might be without power. That's not recourse.
- hedora 2y ago
  The law needs to be updated for things with high installation costs. For example, we bought a built-in oven, and post-sale we discovered a sticker saying that by using the oven, we agreed to a EULA and binding arbitration, and to return it if we disagree. I think that, had we decided to decline the previously-undisclosed EULA, the manufacturer should have had to either provide one that works as they advertised (no EULA) and with identical dimensions, or they should have had to replace our brand-new cabinets with ones that matched a competitor’s product (and incur a large multiple of the cost we paid for the oven).
  - malfist 2y ago
    Completely agree. Those things make even less since in the second hand market. What happens if the solar system was bought from a resaler? Or install by another company and you didn't choose it? What happens when you sell your house and you've removed the sticker?
  - anon84873628 2y ago
    Well, did you try to decline? How do you know what would or wouldn't happen?
    - malfist 2y ago
      Please engage in honest discourse. Both of us know that if you take a range back to best buy because you wouldn't agree to the EULA isn't going to cause best buy to send you all new cabinets
      - anon84873628 2y ago
        Please don't assume dishonest intent. Nothing in the parent says they bought from Best Buy. "Built in" is ambiguous. There could well be a home builder or contractor who should be responsible for correcting the situation.
sam_goody 2y ago
I don't know which "this" was referred to, but I think we need laws to prevent a foreign company or hacker from shutting down our power. There was an article on HN about a month ago, that two companies each have the ability to overload or shut down the entire grid in many parts of the states, just by their remote control of the solar panels and batterires. They should be regulated like any other utility.
- ryao 2y ago
  How would a law prevent this? Does it cause a lion to manifest, whenever someone is about to shut down power, to maul the guy to prevent the shutdown? I do not believe laws have such supernatural powers.
mleonhard 2y ago
There is no such thing as "grey market". USA is a free market. Everyone is authorized to sell all safe items.
- anon84873628 2y ago
  Ok well "safe" in this case includes "the manufacturer intended it to be used here and is not going to modify the software in a way that is detrimental to you the end user." If you sell a complicated product dependent on other parties then you are taking on risks.

We have those laws. You return the faulty device to the entity you purchased it from. I bet some small-time installers that were sourcing on the grey market will go bankrupt because of this.

malfist 2y ago

You return a solar inverter you already have installed? Maybe purchased years ago? And in the meantime you might be without power. That's not recourse.

hedora 2y ago
The law needs to be updated for things with high installation costs. For example, we bought a built-in oven, and post-sale we discovered a sticker saying that by using the oven, we agreed to a EULA and binding arbitration, and to return it if we disagree. I think that, had we decided to decline the previously-undisclosed EULA, the manufacturer should have had to either provide one that works as they advertised (no EULA) and with identical dimensions, or they should have had to replace our brand-new cabinets with ones that matched a competitor’s product (and incur a large multiple of the cost we paid for the oven).
- malfist 2y ago
  Completely agree. Those things make even less since in the second hand market. What happens if the solar system was bought from a resaler? Or install by another company and you didn't choose it? What happens when you sell your house and you've removed the sticker?
- anon84873628 2y ago
  Well, did you try to decline? How do you know what would or wouldn't happen?
  - malfist 2y ago
    Please engage in honest discourse. Both of us know that if you take a range back to best buy because you wouldn't agree to the EULA isn't going to cause best buy to send you all new cabinets
    - anon84873628 2y ago
      Please don't assume dishonest intent. Nothing in the parent says they bought from Best Buy. "Built in" is ambiguous. There could well be a home builder or contractor who should be responsible for correcting the situation.

sam_goody 2y ago

I don't know which "this" was referred to, but I think we need laws to prevent a foreign company or hacker from shutting down our power. There was an article on HN about a month ago, that two companies each have the ability to overload or shut down the entire grid in many parts of the states, just by their remote control of the solar panels and batterires. They should be regulated like any other utility.

ryao 2y ago
How would a law prevent this? Does it cause a lion to manifest, whenever someone is about to shut down power, to maul the guy to prevent the shutdown? I do not believe laws have such supernatural powers.

mleonhard 2y ago

There is no such thing as "grey market". USA is a free market. Everyone is authorized to sell all safe items.

anon84873628 2y ago
Ok well "safe" in this case includes "the manufacturer intended it to be used here and is not going to modify the software in a way that is detrimental to you the end user." If you sell a complicated product dependent on other parties then you are taking on risks.