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If React is so great how come Amazon isn't using it in their store? I think last year an Amazon frontend engineer wrote some tweets explaining they tried React

by pier25 2y ago

If React is so great how come Amazon isn't using it in their store? I think last year an Amazon frontend engineer wrote some tweets explaining they tried React and it was too slow. So they keep using Java for SSR and sprinkle vanilla JS. They were still using jQuery until a couple of years ago and probably still are in some parts of their site.

goodoldneon 2y ago
Do not base your company’s tech decisions on FAANG companies unless your company is a FAANG company. Your challenges are likely very different from theirs
- pier25 2y ago
  You're missing the point of my comment. Someone is contesting that "frameworkism isn't delivering" when we have objective data to prove that it is in fact not delivering. The Amazon store is just a good example because there's a lot of data about it, not because it's FAANG.
  - t-writescode 2y ago
    What I read from what you said is “Chevy trucks are good? Oh yeah, if trucks are good, why does the post office use non-Chevy, non-truck, fleet cars?” Please help me understand where I misunderstand
    - pier25 2y ago
      "Trucks are bad for X" "No, trucks are good for X" "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks are bad for X"
      - t-writescode 2y ago
        "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks [do not fit Amazon's use case for X]"
        pier25 2y ago
        It seems that you're arguing that the performance requirements of Amazon are different from other sites (in e-commerce or not). Is this it? Are you arguing that web devs should ignore CWV for e-commerce sites?
  - root_axis 2y ago
    You just picked Amazon arbitrarily because it supports your argument, but there are many more counter examples where react is used, so what's your point?
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      And who where it’s faster and more performant? Not Pinterest. Not Airbnb. Not X. Not the Amazon competitors he showed. Not even the flipping creators (Facebook) of the framework. You all keep blaming the specific companies for their sites but can’t ever seem to show us an actual performant and good example of react usage.
    - pier25 2y ago
      I used Amazon because there's a significant amount of data to indicate React is a bad fit for e-commerce (as the OP article points out).
- youngtaff 2y ago
  Everyone using React is basing their work on Facebook’s challenge!
scotty79 2y ago
Because Amazon Store is and aleays was an armpit of webdesign? It's the worst designed e-commerce site and decades of tinkering only brought it half way towards basic level of decency that was obvious to a beginner web developer making their own first e-commerce site from scratch in PHP 20 years ago?
- FridgeSeal 2y ago
  You’re blurring architecture with UI. The Amazon site is pretty ugly, yes, but it’s functional and fast.
goobert 2y ago
React is in use in many heavily used frontends at Amazon, maybe not the retail site But there's no inherent reason React couldn't be used for a page that basically shows pictures of products with a description next to them, the bottlenecks will have nothing to do with the frontend in a well engineered system for that type of site
- cyberax 2y ago
  My constant problem with React-based tools is that they don't support deep links properly. You want to right-click on a product description to open it in a different tab to check later, and you can't. Even freaking Google (who really should know better) suffers from that. Amazon's retail frontend uses plain HTML, so it works fine.
  - root_axis 2y ago
    I'm not sure how much experience you have with react, but it doesn't need to "support" links, they function exactly the same as with vanilla js, there's nothing about react that prevents their use. Using JavaScript for links is entirely a developer decision.
    - cyberax 2y ago
      I'm familiar with React. And no, links in React often don't work without extra attention. It's way too easy to put some state information into the context and then have your pages depend on it. For example, you have a page with a filter that is implemented via a simple state, and then a list of widgets that pass the filter. The widgets have a click handler that opens the widget details. Now you right click on it. If you're lucky, it opens the widget details in a separate tab. However, the filter information is lost.
      - troupo 2y ago
        > I'm familiar with React. And no, links in React often don't work without extra attention. ^ These two statements are at odds with each other. React will return a pure browser link that behaves exactly as a browser link: function Comp() { return <a href="some-link">text</a>; } > The widgets have a click handler that opens the widget details. > > Now you right click on it. If you're lucky, it opens the widget details in a separate tab. However, the filter information is lost. So, the problem isn't React. The problem is people overriding default browser behaviour for their widgets. It was a problem before React, and it will be a problem long after React. For example, here's Google's premier site about web technologies: https://web.dev/articles https://web.dev/articles Check out the pagination links at the bottom. There's no React on the page
ec109685 2y ago
Most of their app is a mismatch of web views and native with spinners galore. It doesn’t seem like performance is a high priority for them anymore. E-commerce is fundamentally small data once the user lands on a product page, so every subsequent link and click should be instant.

by pier25 2y ago

goodoldneon 2y ago

Do not base your company’s tech decisions on FAANG companies unless your company is a FAANG company. Your challenges are likely very different from theirs

pier25 2y ago
You're missing the point of my comment. Someone is contesting that "frameworkism isn't delivering" when we have objective data to prove that it is in fact not delivering. The Amazon store is just a good example because there's a lot of data about it, not because it's FAANG.
- t-writescode 2y ago
  What I read from what you said is “Chevy trucks are good? Oh yeah, if trucks are good, why does the post office use non-Chevy, non-truck, fleet cars?” Please help me understand where I misunderstand
  - pier25 2y ago
    "Trucks are bad for X" "No, trucks are good for X" "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks are bad for X"
    - t-writescode 2y ago
      "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks [do not fit Amazon's use case for X]"
      - pier25 2y ago
        It seems that you're arguing that the performance requirements of Amazon are different from other sites (in e-commerce or not). Is this it? Are you arguing that web devs should ignore CWV for e-commerce sites?
- root_axis 2y ago
  You just picked Amazon arbitrarily because it supports your argument, but there are many more counter examples where react is used, so what's your point?
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    And who where it’s faster and more performant? Not Pinterest. Not Airbnb. Not X. Not the Amazon competitors he showed. Not even the flipping creators (Facebook) of the framework. You all keep blaming the specific companies for their sites but can’t ever seem to show us an actual performant and good example of react usage.
  - pier25 2y ago
    I used Amazon because there's a significant amount of data to indicate React is a bad fit for e-commerce (as the OP article points out).
youngtaff 2y ago
Everyone using React is basing their work on Facebook’s challenge!

scotty79 2y ago

Because Amazon Store is and aleays was an armpit of webdesign? It's the worst designed e-commerce site and decades of tinkering only brought it half way towards basic level of decency that was obvious to a beginner web developer making their own first e-commerce site from scratch in PHP 20 years ago?

FridgeSeal 2y ago
You’re blurring architecture with UI. The Amazon site is pretty ugly, yes, but it’s functional and fast.

goobert 2y ago

React is in use in many heavily used frontends at Amazon, maybe not the retail site But there's no inherent reason React couldn't be used for a page that basically shows pictures of products with a description next to them, the bottlenecks will have nothing to do with the frontend in a well engineered system for that type of site

cyberax 2y ago
My constant problem with React-based tools is that they don't support deep links properly. You want to right-click on a product description to open it in a different tab to check later, and you can't. Even freaking Google (who really should know better) suffers from that. Amazon's retail frontend uses plain HTML, so it works fine.
- root_axis 2y ago
  I'm not sure how much experience you have with react, but it doesn't need to "support" links, they function exactly the same as with vanilla js, there's nothing about react that prevents their use. Using JavaScript for links is entirely a developer decision.
  - cyberax 2y ago
    I'm familiar with React. And no, links in React often don't work without extra attention. It's way too easy to put some state information into the context and then have your pages depend on it. For example, you have a page with a filter that is implemented via a simple state, and then a list of widgets that pass the filter. The widgets have a click handler that opens the widget details. Now you right click on it. If you're lucky, it opens the widget details in a separate tab. However, the filter information is lost.
    - troupo 2y ago
      > I'm familiar with React. And no, links in React often don't work without extra attention. ^ These two statements are at odds with each other. React will return a pure browser link that behaves exactly as a browser link: function Comp() { return <a href="some-link">text</a>; } > The widgets have a click handler that opens the widget details. > > Now you right click on it. If you're lucky, it opens the widget details in a separate tab. However, the filter information is lost. So, the problem isn't React. The problem is people overriding default browser behaviour for their widgets. It was a problem before React, and it will be a problem long after React. For example, here's Google's premier site about web technologies: https://web.dev/articles https://web.dev/articles Check out the pagination links at the bottom. There's no React on the page

ec109685 2y ago

Most of their app is a mismatch of web views and native with spinners galore. It doesn’t seem like performance is a high priority for them anymore. E-commerce is fundamentally small data once the user lands on a product page, so every subsequent link and click should be instant.