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If every user input causes a page refresh, that's not an "app" that's a "website". If you don't have any executable code (i.e. Javascript), but just form submit

If every user input causes a page refresh, that's not an "app" that's a "website". If you don't have any executable code (i.e. Javascript), but just form submits, yeah I agree that's what most of the web is, and as you pointed out most of the web is websites not web apps.

simonw 2y ago
Have you explored cross-document view transitions? Would you classify something that uses those as an app or a site? https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/view-transitions#cross-document_view_transitions https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/view-transiti...
- threatofrain 2y ago
  That's actually rather new so we shall see how frontend practice reacts. I've only seen a few instances of it out in the wild so far.
- quantadev 2y ago
  I'm not saying my own definition of "app" is the only correct definition, but in my opinion only if I do a click and something on the SAME page changes, then it's an app. Transitioning to different pages isn't an app, imo.
  - simonw 2y ago
    With this browser feature a navigation to a new page can look like only part of the page changes - without needing any JavaScript.
    - quantadev 2y ago
      > can look like Yeah, but it ain't. lol.
      - thunky 2y ago
        It's easy for developers to forget who the "app" is actually for. Users don't care how it was implemented or how nice the code looks, they just want it to work.
        quantadev 2y ago
        Right. That's precisely why full page reloads/updates every time some action is done (mouse click for example) would be completely unacceptable for most apps I've worked on. I've worked mostly on apps not websites.
        BeefWellington 2y ago
        The overwhelming majority of default HTML actions (no JS) that happen from a mouse click do not trigger a page load. You're trying to make it sound like selecting an item from a dropdown or selecting a textbox to enter text will cause a complete page load every time unless you use an SPA framework and that's just literally completely untrue. By your measure though, it sounds as though you'd be fine if these page loads in the javascriptless world were done in iframes, since then only some portion of the site is being reloaded? I'm using that to illustrate the argument is absurd and the basis on which it is made seems also absurd. SPAs are heavy and frequently written poorly, often eschewing the principles of loading only the bare minimum for a kitchen-sink approach. If you view the web as having only those two options to accomplish "real work" then yeah, you're gonna thing that SPAs are the only way. It's not reality though.
        quantadev 2y ago
        Static sites have their place in the world, for sure. But for large sophisticated apps where a mouse click might cause a state change that might update an unpredictable number of discreet individual visual changes throughout the entire page, that's where an SPA is needed. If you call this "absurd" it really shines more of a light on your own credibility than mine.

simonw 2y ago

Have you explored cross-document view transitions? Would you classify something that uses those as an app or a site? https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/view-transitions#cross-document_view_transitions https://developer.chrome.com/docs/web-platform/view-transiti...

threatofrain 2y ago
That's actually rather new so we shall see how frontend practice reacts. I've only seen a few instances of it out in the wild so far.
quantadev 2y ago
I'm not saying my own definition of "app" is the only correct definition, but in my opinion only if I do a click and something on the SAME page changes, then it's an app. Transitioning to different pages isn't an app, imo.
- simonw 2y ago
  With this browser feature a navigation to a new page can look like only part of the page changes - without needing any JavaScript.
  - quantadev 2y ago
    > can look like Yeah, but it ain't. lol.
    - thunky 2y ago
      It's easy for developers to forget who the "app" is actually for. Users don't care how it was implemented or how nice the code looks, they just want it to work.
      - quantadev 2y ago
        Right. That's precisely why full page reloads/updates every time some action is done (mouse click for example) would be completely unacceptable for most apps I've worked on. I've worked mostly on apps not websites.
        BeefWellington 2y ago
        The overwhelming majority of default HTML actions (no JS) that happen from a mouse click do not trigger a page load. You're trying to make it sound like selecting an item from a dropdown or selecting a textbox to enter text will cause a complete page load every time unless you use an SPA framework and that's just literally completely untrue. By your measure though, it sounds as though you'd be fine if these page loads in the javascriptless world were done in iframes, since then only some portion of the site is being reloaded? I'm using that to illustrate the argument is absurd and the basis on which it is made seems also absurd. SPAs are heavy and frequently written poorly, often eschewing the principles of loading only the bare minimum for a kitchen-sink approach. If you view the web as having only those two options to accomplish "real work" then yeah, you're gonna thing that SPAs are the only way. It's not reality though.
        quantadev 2y ago
        Static sites have their place in the world, for sure. But for large sophisticated apps where a mouse click might cause a state change that might update an unpredictable number of discreet individual visual changes throughout the entire page, that's where an SPA is needed. If you call this "absurd" it really shines more of a light on your own credibility than mine.