6 ms·

> Frameworkism isn't delivering. It isn't? I find React to be great to work with.

by dimgl 2y ago

xcrunner529 2y ago
Yes, you the developer. I think that’s his point. The performance if react sites is another thing and that’s what the user cares about. It also doesn’t work on mobile. React native was worshipped and now is thrown out.
- alex_smart 2y ago
  Is it even working for the developer though? Last I checked the server-side rendering performance for react based frameworks was somewhere like 200 pages per second? Is that something to be proud of as a developer?
- robertoandred 2y ago
  React is absolutely performant. A developer who makes a slow React site would make a slow site with something else.
  - xcrunner529 2y ago
    Tell that to all the former PHP developers. Where are these performant React sites? The largest and best tech companies out there certainly can’t do it.
    - robertoandred 2y ago
      The same former PHP developers responsible for all those slow WordPress sites?
      - xcrunner529 2y ago
        The ones who made react.
    - TiredOfLife 2y ago
      https://next-faster.vercel.app/ https://next-faster.vercel.app/
    - dimgl 2y ago
      Uh... I'm pretty sure Compass.com is running on Next.js...
  - cosmotic 2y ago
    They're a wide chasm between what one can make and what is led to making. React can lead to fast, responsive websites, though you'd be fighting against a current pulling you out to a bloated, buggy mess. There's a unique stench that comes from many react sites where everything is a skeleton screen, everything loads slowly, history rewriting is busted, there's no hotlinking, and scrolling is glitchy. Peek under the hood, it's almost always react. Facebook.com quality is the outlier, not the likely outcome.
  - crvst 2y ago
    React is far from performant for SSR, and it simply can’t be, as it wasn’t designed with backend needs in mind. The fact that it works at all is more of a happy accident or side effect. Current approaches are more like workarounds than proper solutions for making it function effectively on servers. Most importantly, it’s also not particularly performant on the client side in real-world scenarios. For evidence, here’s a guy testing major websites using his awesome react-scan tool: https://x.com/aidenybai/status/1861442057598062653 https://x.com/aidenybai/status/1861442057598062653
pier25 2y ago
If React is so great how come Amazon isn't using it in their store? I think last year an Amazon frontend engineer wrote some tweets explaining they tried React and it was too slow. So they keep using Java for SSR and sprinkle vanilla JS. They were still using jQuery until a couple of years ago and probably still are in some parts of their site.
- goodoldneon 2y ago
  Do not base your company’s tech decisions on FAANG companies unless your company is a FAANG company. Your challenges are likely very different from theirs
  - pier25 2y ago
    You're missing the point of my comment. Someone is contesting that "frameworkism isn't delivering" when we have objective data to prove that it is in fact not delivering. The Amazon store is just a good example because there's a lot of data about it, not because it's FAANG.
    - t-writescode 2y ago
      What I read from what you said is “Chevy trucks are good? Oh yeah, if trucks are good, why does the post office use non-Chevy, non-truck, fleet cars?” Please help me understand where I misunderstand
      - pier25 2y ago
        "Trucks are bad for X" "No, trucks are good for X" "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks are bad for X"
        t-writescode 2y ago
        "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks [do not fit Amazon's use case for X]"

> Frameworkism isn't delivering. It isn't? I find React to be great to work with.

by dimgl 2y ago

> Frameworkism isn't delivering. It isn't? I find React to be great to work with.

Yes, you the developer. I think that’s his point. The performance if react sites is another thing and that’s what the user cares about. It also doesn’t work on mobile. React native was worshipped and now is thrown out.

alex_smart 2y ago
Is it even working for the developer though? Last I checked the server-side rendering performance for react based frameworks was somewhere like 200 pages per second? Is that something to be proud of as a developer?
robertoandred 2y ago
React is absolutely performant. A developer who makes a slow React site would make a slow site with something else.
- xcrunner529 2y ago
  Tell that to all the former PHP developers. Where are these performant React sites? The largest and best tech companies out there certainly can’t do it.
  - robertoandred 2y ago
    The same former PHP developers responsible for all those slow WordPress sites?
    - xcrunner529 2y ago
      The ones who made react.
  - TiredOfLife 2y ago
    https://next-faster.vercel.app/ https://next-faster.vercel.app/
  - dimgl 2y ago
    Uh... I'm pretty sure Compass.com is running on Next.js...
- cosmotic 2y ago
  They're a wide chasm between what one can make and what is led to making. React can lead to fast, responsive websites, though you'd be fighting against a current pulling you out to a bloated, buggy mess. There's a unique stench that comes from many react sites where everything is a skeleton screen, everything loads slowly, history rewriting is busted, there's no hotlinking, and scrolling is glitchy. Peek under the hood, it's almost always react. Facebook.com quality is the outlier, not the likely outcome.
- crvst 2y ago
  React is far from performant for SSR, and it simply can’t be, as it wasn’t designed with backend needs in mind. The fact that it works at all is more of a happy accident or side effect. Current approaches are more like workarounds than proper solutions for making it function effectively on servers. Most importantly, it’s also not particularly performant on the client side in real-world scenarios. For evidence, here’s a guy testing major websites using his awesome react-scan tool: https://x.com/aidenybai/status/1861442057598062653 https://x.com/aidenybai/status/1861442057598062653

pier25 2y ago

If React is so great how come Amazon isn't using it in their store? I think last year an Amazon frontend engineer wrote some tweets explaining they tried React and it was too slow. So they keep using Java for SSR and sprinkle vanilla JS. They were still using jQuery until a couple of years ago and probably still are in some parts of their site.

goodoldneon 2y ago
Do not base your company’s tech decisions on FAANG companies unless your company is a FAANG company. Your challenges are likely very different from theirs
- pier25 2y ago
  You're missing the point of my comment. Someone is contesting that "frameworkism isn't delivering" when we have objective data to prove that it is in fact not delivering. The Amazon store is just a good example because there's a lot of data about it, not because it's FAANG.
  - t-writescode 2y ago
    What I read from what you said is “Chevy trucks are good? Oh yeah, if trucks are good, why does the post office use non-Chevy, non-truck, fleet cars?” Please help me understand where I misunderstand
    - pier25 2y ago
      "Trucks are bad for X" "No, trucks are good for X" "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks are bad for X"
      - t-writescode 2y ago
        "Look at this use case (Amazon) with tons of objective data that shows that trucks [do not fit Amazon's use case for X]"