4 ms·

> Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too lat

by josefx 2y ago

> Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too late. You seem to be ignorant of how badly democracy worked in the Weimar Republic. The Weimar Republic never had an elected government, every attempt to form one failed. While the elections had an effect on the composition of the Reichstag all positions of power ended up getting assigned round robin style. The Nazis established their control of the country through emergency legislation passed to deal with terrorism, which let them bypass the Reichstag almost entirely. When the Nazis called for a vote in the Reichstag at gunpoint to establish Hitler as the Fuhrer they had to fudge attendance records because most elected members of parliament where either dead or in prison.

ajuc 2y ago
> You seem to be ignorant of how badly democracy worked in the Weimar Republic And whose fault is that? If you fail to fix your country political system for long enough - you get dictatorship and eventually war. There's nobody responsible for it other than citizens of that country. Whose fault is it that USA democracy is turning into oligarchy? Politicians - sure, but these politicians keep getting elected despite gerrymandering, taking billions in "lobbying" for tax cuts, openly lying, ignoring obvious systemic problems, etc. Whose fault is it, that Putin could invade Ukraine and kill hundreds of thousands of people? Regular Russians had a faulty democracy and decided to do nothing as it was dismantled step by step. Now they are sent to die murdering innocent people. Ultimately you can't escape the responsibility for your country. If you did nothing - you're an accomplice.
- josefx 2y ago
  > for long enough The German empire underwent revolts during the end of WWI. They just missed the mark a bit. Instead of Willhelm II they should have gotten rid of Hindenburg, who starting 1916 was singlehandedly in charge of the German military and refused every peace offer until the empire was left without allies and struggled with countless internal revolts. Instead of taking the blame for prolonging the war he walked away smelling like roses, helped establish the Weimar Republic and played a key role in it to its end where he got cosy with the Nazis, directly aiding their rise to power. In short, people tried to fix things, they got rid of Willhelm II and got Hitlers best buddy instead.
  - ajuc 2y ago
    > The German empire underwent revolts during the end of WWI By communists and far-right :) Where were the pro-democratic mainstream protests? It was the communists (USSR) and nazis (3rd Reich) who started WW2 after being unchecked for 2 decades. > Instead of Willhelm II they should have gotten rid of Hindenburg, who starting 1916 was singlehandedly in charge of the German military and refused every peace offer until the empire was left without allies and struggled with countless internal revolts. Instead of taking the blame for prolonging the war he walked away smelling like roses, helped establish the Weimar Republic Is this view mainsteam in modern Germany? Considering how popular the Stab-in-the-Back theory was in interwar period I would think prolonging the war more, letting german cities be occupied etc. - would have resulted in nazis losing popularity not gaining it. So if anything - Hindenburg mistake was the opposite - saving German infrastructure and lives at the cost of making Germans conspiracy theorists and nazis. But nevermind the WW1 peace treaty. Nazis could have been stopped at many points. If socialists managed to work with communists for one thing (but then again - Germany was already training their army in secret in USSR at that point after Rapallo, so it's probably not realistic). The problem is that Germans seemed to protest in favour of extremes more often and more violently than against them. So extremes won. BTW it might seem like I single out Germans. But in my country - Poland - democracy failed in a very similar way in 1926. And people were at fault too. Keeping the country democratic is the responsibility of citizens.

by josefx 2y ago

ajuc 2y ago

> You seem to be ignorant of how badly democracy worked in the Weimar Republic And whose fault is that? If you fail to fix your country political system for long enough - you get dictatorship and eventually war. There's nobody responsible for it other than citizens of that country. Whose fault is it that USA democracy is turning into oligarchy? Politicians - sure, but these politicians keep getting elected despite gerrymandering, taking billions in "lobbying" for tax cuts, openly lying, ignoring obvious systemic problems, etc. Whose fault is it, that Putin could invade Ukraine and kill hundreds of thousands of people? Regular Russians had a faulty democracy and decided to do nothing as it was dismantled step by step. Now they are sent to die murdering innocent people. Ultimately you can't escape the responsibility for your country. If you did nothing - you're an accomplice.

josefx 2y ago
> for long enough The German empire underwent revolts during the end of WWI. They just missed the mark a bit. Instead of Willhelm II they should have gotten rid of Hindenburg, who starting 1916 was singlehandedly in charge of the German military and refused every peace offer until the empire was left without allies and struggled with countless internal revolts. Instead of taking the blame for prolonging the war he walked away smelling like roses, helped establish the Weimar Republic and played a key role in it to its end where he got cosy with the Nazis, directly aiding their rise to power. In short, people tried to fix things, they got rid of Willhelm II and got Hitlers best buddy instead.
- ajuc 2y ago
  > The German empire underwent revolts during the end of WWI By communists and far-right :) Where were the pro-democratic mainstream protests? It was the communists (USSR) and nazis (3rd Reich) who started WW2 after being unchecked for 2 decades. > Instead of Willhelm II they should have gotten rid of Hindenburg, who starting 1916 was singlehandedly in charge of the German military and refused every peace offer until the empire was left without allies and struggled with countless internal revolts. Instead of taking the blame for prolonging the war he walked away smelling like roses, helped establish the Weimar Republic Is this view mainsteam in modern Germany? Considering how popular the Stab-in-the-Back theory was in interwar period I would think prolonging the war more, letting german cities be occupied etc. - would have resulted in nazis losing popularity not gaining it. So if anything - Hindenburg mistake was the opposite - saving German infrastructure and lives at the cost of making Germans conspiracy theorists and nazis. But nevermind the WW1 peace treaty. Nazis could have been stopped at many points. If socialists managed to work with communists for one thing (but then again - Germany was already training their army in secret in USSR at that point after Rapallo, so it's probably not realistic). The problem is that Germans seemed to protest in favour of extremes more often and more violently than against them. So extremes won. BTW it might seem like I single out Germans. But in my country - Poland - democracy failed in a very similar way in 1926. And people were at fault too. Keeping the country democratic is the responsibility of citizens.