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Most importantly Content keeps exploding. Total available human Attention does not grow. So how does Adtech generate more and more revenue and sells more and m

by cen4 2y ago

Most importantly Content keeps exploding. Total available human Attention does not grow. So how does Adtech generate more and more revenue and sells more and more ads year on year? Simple answer - Fraud.

mattnewton 2y ago
Advertisers are locked into an arms race for attention with each other. Even if you were stuck with the same slice of eyeball time, you can still grow by selling it for more, and in many ways that's what google's auctions are set up to do. But google's investment in youtube in particular has steadily grown the eyeball-time they have access to as well. I'm not ruling out fraud but I don't see how these facts prove fraud, it seems more like google continuing to naturally benefit from the decline of traditional print and television media.
- causality0 2y ago
  Sometimes I wonder what fraction of people employed in advertising think they're making the world better by exposing customers to good products and what percentage aren't in denial about the fact they're weaving dollars out of human misery.
  - dasil003 2y ago
    Never worked in ad tech so no incentive to see things one way or the other. I do think it’s sad that so much brain power has gone into it, but “weaving dollars out of human misery” is a bit much.
    - walleeee 2y ago
      Indeed, it's not fair to lay all the blame at the feet of the middling adtech worker. Plus a good fraction of the fibers are certified non-human.
araes 2y ago
Similar to my own thoughts on the issue. It's a lot like the credit card issuing banks. Two notable big names, Wells Fargo and Bank of America both "illegally used or obtained consumers’ credit reports, and then applied for and enrolled consumers in credit card accounts without consumers’ knowledge or authorization." [1][2] Banks had each employee need to sell 50 credit cards a month. Employees sold 50 a month. Banks needed "line goes up" for every quarter. Banks had each employee sell 100 a month. Employee's tried to sell 100 a month. Banks needed "line goes up." Eventually market was saturated, yet banks said sell 1000 credit cards a month. Employees replied, "we cannot, market is saturated." Bank said "sell 1000 a month." Employee's responded with "make shit up, open accounts without consumers knowledge." Fraud. [1] (Wells Fargo, millions of accounts, $3B civil settlement, $3.7B CFPB judgement, 2020), https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-bill..., https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/07/11/bank-of-america-fined-250-million-over-fake-accounts-and-illegal-junk-fees/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/07/11/bank-of-ame... [2] (Bank of America, unspecified # of accounts, 2023) https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/bank-of-america-for-illegally-charging-junk-fees-withholding-credit-card-rewards-opening-fake-accounts/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/bank-of-am...
VyseofArcadia 2y ago
> Total available human Attention does not grow. Yes it does. It scales with population, which last time I checked is still going up.
- baq 2y ago
  The growing population is starved of dollars. You care about attention of dollars, not of people.
  - FergusArgyll 2y ago
    https://databank.worldbank.org/reports.aspx?source=2&series=NY.GDP.MKTP.CD&country https://databank.worldbank.org/reports.aspx?source=2&series=... You can click `chart` for an easier visualization
e6u4u 2y ago
Is total available human attention actually relevant here? It implies that all the possible attention is available already for advertising purposes which doesn't seem true at all.
- baq 2y ago
  If it was the economy would shut down soon after it happened.
jumping_frog 2y ago
Attention has a common resource problem. If you (google) don't overgraze your cattle on it, the facebook will because they both are getting the same users at the same time. It's a race at this point. I am getting ads from same company being recommended on both Meta and Google ads real estate.
xnx 2y ago
> how does Adtech generate more and more revenue and sells more and more ads year on year Shifting spend from legacy media, and extracting more value from the sellers' margin.
fire_lake 2y ago
More people are getting online every year

by cen4 2y ago

mattnewton 2y ago

Advertisers are locked into an arms race for attention with each other. Even if you were stuck with the same slice of eyeball time, you can still grow by selling it for more, and in many ways that's what google's auctions are set up to do. But google's investment in youtube in particular has steadily grown the eyeball-time they have access to as well. I'm not ruling out fraud but I don't see how these facts prove fraud, it seems more like google continuing to naturally benefit from the decline of traditional print and television media.

causality0 2y ago
Sometimes I wonder what fraction of people employed in advertising think they're making the world better by exposing customers to good products and what percentage aren't in denial about the fact they're weaving dollars out of human misery.
- dasil003 2y ago
  Never worked in ad tech so no incentive to see things one way or the other. I do think it’s sad that so much brain power has gone into it, but “weaving dollars out of human misery” is a bit much.
  - walleeee 2y ago
    Indeed, it's not fair to lay all the blame at the feet of the middling adtech worker. Plus a good fraction of the fibers are certified non-human.

araes 2y ago

Similar to my own thoughts on the issue. It's a lot like the credit card issuing banks. Two notable big names, Wells Fargo and Bank of America both "illegally used or obtained consumers’ credit reports, and then applied for and enrolled consumers in credit card accounts without consumers’ knowledge or authorization." [1][2] Banks had each employee need to sell 50 credit cards a month. Employees sold 50 a month. Banks needed "line goes up" for every quarter. Banks had each employee sell 100 a month. Employee's tried to sell 100 a month. Banks needed "line goes up." Eventually market was saturated, yet banks said sell 1000 credit cards a month. Employees replied, "we cannot, market is saturated." Bank said "sell 1000 a month." Employee's responded with "make shit up, open accounts without consumers knowledge." Fraud. [1] (Wells Fargo, millions of accounts, $3B civil settlement, $3.7B CFPB judgement, 2020), https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-billion-resolve-criminal-and-civil-investigations-sales-practices https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/wells-fargo-agrees-pay-3-bill..., https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/07/11/bank-of-america-fined-250-million-over-fake-accounts-and-illegal-junk-fees/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/anafaguy/2023/07/11/bank-of-ame... [2] (Bank of America, unspecified # of accounts, 2023) https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/bank-of-america-for-illegally-charging-junk-fees-withholding-credit-card-rewards-opening-fake-accounts/ https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/bank-of-am...

VyseofArcadia 2y ago

> Total available human Attention does not grow. Yes it does. It scales with population, which last time I checked is still going up.

baq 2y ago
The growing population is starved of dollars. You care about attention of dollars, not of people.
- FergusArgyll 2y ago
  https://databank.worldbank.org/reports.aspx?source=2&series=NY.GDP.MKTP.CD&country https://databank.worldbank.org/reports.aspx?source=2&series=... You can click `chart` for an easier visualization

e6u4u 2y ago

Is total available human attention actually relevant here? It implies that all the possible attention is available already for advertising purposes which doesn't seem true at all.

baq 2y ago
If it was the economy would shut down soon after it happened.

jumping_frog 2y ago

Attention has a common resource problem. If you (google) don't overgraze your cattle on it, the facebook will because they both are getting the same users at the same time. It's a race at this point. I am getting ads from same company being recommended on both Meta and Google ads real estate.

xnx 2y ago

> how does Adtech generate more and more revenue and sells more and more ads year on year Shifting spend from legacy media, and extracting more value from the sellers' margin.

fire_lake 2y ago

More people are getting online every year