4 ms·

You're right. Because my e-bike is of negligible danger to others. But cars kill tens of thousands every year. Speed limits and red lights being on the honor s

by rcpt 2y ago

You're right. Because my e-bike is of negligible danger to others. But cars kill tens of thousands every year. Speed limits and red lights being on the honor system isn't working. Luckily technology, like the little GPS tracker in the article, can fix it.

skinkestek 2y ago
Most things that transfer power from individuals to future governments is a clear no from me. I am happy with our current government. But reading history I have realized that the scariest thing that is is powerful governments. Honor and trust work extremely well: anyone of us can create enormous caos if we want to but most of us don't so it doesn't happen.
- rcpt 2y ago
  I don't like that my kids can no longer cross the street we live on because people have stopped obeying traffic lights and cops no longer enforce the law. The honor system isn't working and people are dying because of it. Now what are your specific fears about speed limiters on cars?
  - pdonis 2y ago
    > I don't like that my kids can no longer cross the street we live on because people have stopped obeying traffic lights and cops no longer enforce the law. The best solution to living in a place with bad people in it, if you can't get them to leave, is to move. There are plenty of places to live where people do obey traffic laws and cops do enforce the law. What I don't like is people trying to punish me, a law-abiding responsible adult, for the misdeeds of others who are not.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    How about non-specific fears about limiter devices generally, such as chains.
justinclift 2y ago
Pity about the downsides of the technologies you mention though. :(
- rcpt 2y ago
  What downside? You're not supposed to run red lights or exceed the speed limit. This should be enforced electronically. The machines are unbiased and more accurate than cops. Cheaper too.
  - pdonis 2y ago
    > You're not supposed to run red lights Even if it's an empty intersection and I can clearly see that there is no traffic coming, and the stupid light is staying red for way too long simply because the local government can't be bothered to put in a smarter one? > or exceed the speed limit. Even if it's an empty limited access highway and the speed limit is set too low because whatever government runs the road can't be bothered to update it to reflect the current circumstances? Sure, if a cop catches me (or a monitoring camera does) doing these things, I get a ticket and have to pay a fine. But that just reinforces the point that traffic laws are way more about revenue for municipalities than they are about actual safety. If they were about actual safety, then I wouldn't get a ticket for violating the letter of a traffic law when there was negligible risk of actual harm. You seem to believe that just because some people put a law in place, it must be the best possible tradeoff among various competing factors. All human history shows that such a belief is false.
  - chgs 2y ago
    There’s a big difference between being punished appropriately for doing something, and being able to present your mitigating circumstances, and being prevented from doing something. By all means fine me for going through the red light, then allow me to explain to the judge the mitigating reasons (carrying a heart attack patient etc)
SoftTalker 2y ago
An e-bike going 40mph (or even slower) can easily kill you or someone else.
- matsemann 2y ago
  A car hitting a pedestrian at 30 mph is 80 % chance of death. At 20 mph the chance is only 20 %. So the outrage and over-reactive legislation put on electric bicycles or electric scooters is quite insane in comparison. Max 15 mph on an electric bike, no limits on a car in the city..
pdonis 2y ago
> Speed limits and red lights being on the honor system isn't working. Speak for yourself. I don't need a nanny monitor in my car to drive safely. Nor do the vast majority of drivers. There are about 150 billion cars in the world. Only a very tiny fraction of them kill people. And punishing all the people who do drive responsibly because of the mistakes of the tiny fraction of drivers who don't is getting things backwards. The consequences should be on the people who do kill others with their cars, not on the people who don't.
- xnx 2y ago
  > There are about 150 billion cars in the world. This is wrong by ~100x. "There are about 1.475 billion vehicles on Earth in 2024.": https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2021/06/how-many-cars-are-there-in-the-world/ https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2021/06/how-many-cars-are-the...
  - pdonis 2y ago
    Even with the smaller number, there are still only a tiny fraction that kill people.

by rcpt 2y ago

skinkestek 2y ago

Most things that transfer power from individuals to future governments is a clear no from me. I am happy with our current government. But reading history I have realized that the scariest thing that is is powerful governments. Honor and trust work extremely well: anyone of us can create enormous caos if we want to but most of us don't so it doesn't happen.

rcpt 2y ago
I don't like that my kids can no longer cross the street we live on because people have stopped obeying traffic lights and cops no longer enforce the law. The honor system isn't working and people are dying because of it. Now what are your specific fears about speed limiters on cars?
- pdonis 2y ago
  > I don't like that my kids can no longer cross the street we live on because people have stopped obeying traffic lights and cops no longer enforce the law. The best solution to living in a place with bad people in it, if you can't get them to leave, is to move. There are plenty of places to live where people do obey traffic laws and cops do enforce the law. What I don't like is people trying to punish me, a law-abiding responsible adult, for the misdeeds of others who are not.
- card_zero 2y ago
  How about non-specific fears about limiter devices generally, such as chains.

justinclift 2y ago

Pity about the downsides of the technologies you mention though. :(

rcpt 2y ago
What downside? You're not supposed to run red lights or exceed the speed limit. This should be enforced electronically. The machines are unbiased and more accurate than cops. Cheaper too.
- pdonis 2y ago
  > You're not supposed to run red lights Even if it's an empty intersection and I can clearly see that there is no traffic coming, and the stupid light is staying red for way too long simply because the local government can't be bothered to put in a smarter one? > or exceed the speed limit. Even if it's an empty limited access highway and the speed limit is set too low because whatever government runs the road can't be bothered to update it to reflect the current circumstances? Sure, if a cop catches me (or a monitoring camera does) doing these things, I get a ticket and have to pay a fine. But that just reinforces the point that traffic laws are way more about revenue for municipalities than they are about actual safety. If they were about actual safety, then I wouldn't get a ticket for violating the letter of a traffic law when there was negligible risk of actual harm. You seem to believe that just because some people put a law in place, it must be the best possible tradeoff among various competing factors. All human history shows that such a belief is false.
- chgs 2y ago
  There’s a big difference between being punished appropriately for doing something, and being able to present your mitigating circumstances, and being prevented from doing something. By all means fine me for going through the red light, then allow me to explain to the judge the mitigating reasons (carrying a heart attack patient etc)

SoftTalker 2y ago

An e-bike going 40mph (or even slower) can easily kill you or someone else.

matsemann 2y ago
A car hitting a pedestrian at 30 mph is 80 % chance of death. At 20 mph the chance is only 20 %. So the outrage and over-reactive legislation put on electric bicycles or electric scooters is quite insane in comparison. Max 15 mph on an electric bike, no limits on a car in the city..

pdonis 2y ago

> Speed limits and red lights being on the honor system isn't working. Speak for yourself. I don't need a nanny monitor in my car to drive safely. Nor do the vast majority of drivers. There are about 150 billion cars in the world. Only a very tiny fraction of them kill people. And punishing all the people who do drive responsibly because of the mistakes of the tiny fraction of drivers who don't is getting things backwards. The consequences should be on the people who do kill others with their cars, not on the people who don't.

xnx 2y ago
> There are about 150 billion cars in the world. This is wrong by ~100x. "There are about 1.475 billion vehicles on Earth in 2024.": https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2021/06/how-many-cars-are-there-in-the-world/ https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2021/06/how-many-cars-are-the...
- pdonis 2y ago
  Even with the smaller number, there are still only a tiny fraction that kill people.