4 ms·

What’s the difference between how a senior and non-senior learn that would warrant a unique platform for each?

wnolens 2y ago
Another programming language as reference. I can learn a new language really easily this way, but the first was really hard - it was so unlike anything i had ever done before.
- whartung 2y ago
  “Writing Fortran in Lisp” should not be disregarded. There’s a lot of value of having hands on exposure and success with common, even if not idiomatic, concepts. Ye Olde “write once, throw it away” concept. Using prior language knowledge can make the first steps much smaller as you learn not just the new language, but environment and tools. This can give you a quick, solid foundation with which to leverage learning newer ideas and idioms of the new system.
PMunch 2y ago
Well a senior developer would be assumed to share a certain common understanding of concepts and terms that a more junior developer might not. When teaching anything one of the most important parts is ta gauge your pupils and determine whether they need more or less information to keep the topic interesting while not making it impossible to follow along. Since written or otherwise pre-recorded teaching materials aren't afforded the luxury of interacting with their pupils they must choose ahead of time what level they are aimed at. And since a senior in any field would be able to follow along with materials meant for the junior, albeit at a slower and less interesting pace, but not the other way around they tend to err on the side of over-explanation. A platform for teaching senior developers would therefore allow a more engaging and time saving experience for those able to consume it.
chx 2y ago
The essence of being senior, I feel is "I have made the mistake you are about to make". This echoes in language learning. When I was learning Go I could easily pinpoint what language design decisions were made because of lessons learned from this language or that. (I do not want to suggest schismogenesis applies to programming languages but ... it kinda sorta does?) Teaching with this in mind needs a very different curriculum. Also, basic exercises are boring because we did them ten thousand and one times already just with slightly different syntax.
tester756 2y ago
Senior doesn't need to learn about loops, ifs and so on For example when learning C++ while being proficient at C# I found useful this blog: https://www.jacksondunstan.com/articles/5530 https://www.jacksondunstan.com/articles/5530 "C++ For C# Developers: Part 1 – Introduction" Author compares features between C# and C++ and shows what is similar, the same, different, non-existent, etc.
- ecuaflo 2y ago
  These things are taught in the first semester of a CS degree and part of the interview process for an entry-level position.
  - tester756 2y ago
    What "these things"? Differences between languages?
devjab 2y ago
I’m going to go against the flow and say nothing. I think the primary reason you see seniors looking for senior focused platforms is because almost all the learning content is terrible. Seniors will spot this sooner than juniors. I’ve worked as an external examiner for CS students for a decade and the stuff they put themselves through to avoid reading official docs is amazing. They’ll literally sit through 50 hours of video of what is essentially two a4 pages of “example how-to”. Why a senior wouldn’t just head directly to the documentation for a programming language or the equivalent to “The C++ Programming Language” is a different question though. Learning a new language is extremely easy, it’s learning how the compiler, runtime and so on which is hard. You’ll very rarely find that outside of official docs or books written by extremely knowledgeable people.
- threatofrain 2y ago
  All your reasoning is agreeable but I disagree with the foremost conclusion > I’m going to go against the flow and say nothing. Whether we're talking about the actual language or the surrounding tooling and ecosystem, very few language and ecosystem experiences are actually different. As a result you're often mapping needs that you already satisfied and can explicitly state to another language. Someone who has already learned their n-th language looks at learning very differently. This also makes a seasoned learner vastly more capable of extracting value from a friend or colleague who is willing to steer the learning experience.
- drivingmenuts 2y ago
  That's how I've learned Python, so far. Between that and, writing my own code, and looking at other's code, Ive picked up quite a bit (not an expert but I think I'm doing OK). The easy part is the language, the difficult part is learning to do things the Pythonic way. Of course, I have to allow for the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
  - zifpanachr23 2y ago
    This doesn't sound like Dunning-Kreuger to me. You sound well aware of the fact that being able to put out working python code doesn't necessarily mean you fully understand all of the best practices and idioms that the particular community uses, and that's okay. You are aware of your weakness. If you were stuck in "tutorial hell" but thought you knew the language, then maybe that would be Dunning-Kreuger. Or if you were unaware of your not writing idiomatic code due to coming from a different language and being new.

Another programming language as reference. I can learn a new language really easily this way, but the first was really hard - it was so unlike anything i had ever done before.

whartung 2y ago
“Writing Fortran in Lisp” should not be disregarded. There’s a lot of value of having hands on exposure and success with common, even if not idiomatic, concepts. Ye Olde “write once, throw it away” concept. Using prior language knowledge can make the first steps much smaller as you learn not just the new language, but environment and tools. This can give you a quick, solid foundation with which to leverage learning newer ideas and idioms of the new system.

PMunch 2y ago

Well a senior developer would be assumed to share a certain common understanding of concepts and terms that a more junior developer might not. When teaching anything one of the most important parts is ta gauge your pupils and determine whether they need more or less information to keep the topic interesting while not making it impossible to follow along. Since written or otherwise pre-recorded teaching materials aren't afforded the luxury of interacting with their pupils they must choose ahead of time what level they are aimed at. And since a senior in any field would be able to follow along with materials meant for the junior, albeit at a slower and less interesting pace, but not the other way around they tend to err on the side of over-explanation. A platform for teaching senior developers would therefore allow a more engaging and time saving experience for those able to consume it.

chx 2y ago

The essence of being senior, I feel is "I have made the mistake you are about to make". This echoes in language learning. When I was learning Go I could easily pinpoint what language design decisions were made because of lessons learned from this language or that. (I do not want to suggest schismogenesis applies to programming languages but ... it kinda sorta does?) Teaching with this in mind needs a very different curriculum. Also, basic exercises are boring because we did them ten thousand and one times already just with slightly different syntax.

tester756 2y ago

Senior doesn't need to learn about loops, ifs and so on For example when learning C++ while being proficient at C# I found useful this blog: https://www.jacksondunstan.com/articles/5530 https://www.jacksondunstan.com/articles/5530 "C++ For C# Developers: Part 1 – Introduction" Author compares features between C# and C++ and shows what is similar, the same, different, non-existent, etc.

ecuaflo 2y ago
These things are taught in the first semester of a CS degree and part of the interview process for an entry-level position.
- tester756 2y ago
  What "these things"? Differences between languages?

devjab 2y ago

I’m going to go against the flow and say nothing. I think the primary reason you see seniors looking for senior focused platforms is because almost all the learning content is terrible. Seniors will spot this sooner than juniors. I’ve worked as an external examiner for CS students for a decade and the stuff they put themselves through to avoid reading official docs is amazing. They’ll literally sit through 50 hours of video of what is essentially two a4 pages of “example how-to”. Why a senior wouldn’t just head directly to the documentation for a programming language or the equivalent to “The C++ Programming Language” is a different question though. Learning a new language is extremely easy, it’s learning how the compiler, runtime and so on which is hard. You’ll very rarely find that outside of official docs or books written by extremely knowledgeable people.

threatofrain 2y ago
All your reasoning is agreeable but I disagree with the foremost conclusion > I’m going to go against the flow and say nothing. Whether we're talking about the actual language or the surrounding tooling and ecosystem, very few language and ecosystem experiences are actually different. As a result you're often mapping needs that you already satisfied and can explicitly state to another language. Someone who has already learned their n-th language looks at learning very differently. This also makes a seasoned learner vastly more capable of extracting value from a friend or colleague who is willing to steer the learning experience.
drivingmenuts 2y ago
That's how I've learned Python, so far. Between that and, writing my own code, and looking at other's code, Ive picked up quite a bit (not an expert but I think I'm doing OK). The easy part is the language, the difficult part is learning to do things the Pythonic way. Of course, I have to allow for the Dunning-Kreuger effect.
- zifpanachr23 2y ago
  This doesn't sound like Dunning-Kreuger to me. You sound well aware of the fact that being able to put out working python code doesn't necessarily mean you fully understand all of the best practices and idioms that the particular community uses, and that's okay. You are aware of your weakness. If you were stuck in "tutorial hell" but thought you knew the language, then maybe that would be Dunning-Kreuger. Or if you were unaware of your not writing idiomatic code due to coming from a different language and being new.