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Does the Bible say you shouldn't end your life if you're dying of something incurable and terribly painful?

by kranke155 2y ago

technion 2y ago
Regardless of what a bible says it is indeed the view of many religious people.
- kranke155 2y ago
  They probably change their mind pretty quick if they witness a loved one go through endless pain for no reason. Some of them, I'd think. Others, I'm sure, would tell them how much wonderful the gates of heaven will look when they get there.
ImJamal 2y ago
Yes. Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another with the intention of killing yourself.
- kranke155 2y ago
  Thats odd. Anyway seems like that is a possible reading but not all possible readings.
  - ImJamal 2y ago
    If every Jew and Christian until like 100 years ago think that was the correct interpretation then that is the canonical interpretation. Calling in a possible reading is just not correct.
    - defrost 2y ago
      It would seem that many exceptions were carved out to allow Christian led crusades, pograms, etc. Jewish military history is extensive and embraced more than simple stern words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_military_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_military_history.
      - ImJamal 2y ago
        I am not sure what your point even is. What is typically referred to as killing (thou shalt not kill) is referring to murder / unjustified killing. This is how Jews and Christians have interpreted it for almost the entirety of their existence. It is only in the more recent years that a small minority have disagreed. There is no exception because it is not talking about just killings only unjust ones. Wars, and killings within them, can be just (look up just war theory). The point of a war, at least from a Christian perspective, is not to kill people, but to stop an invasion, protect innocents or the like. If it isn't doing that then the war is not just. If you are wanting to kill, rather than protect innocents or whatever then you are fighting for the wrong reason. This is what is known as the principle of double effect. The Crusades were intended to stop the Muslim invasion, regain Christian lands, prevent the fall of the Byzantine Empire, allow for safe travel of pilgrims, etc. Those are considered just things to protect. (Obviously not all people in the Crusades had the same motives, but that is on them not the war in general). Also, just because Christians, Jews, or whoever do something, doesn't mean it is inline with their faith. People justify bad things, ignore teachings, don't actually believe, etc. To give a more modern example and one relevant to the thread, jumping on a live grenade is not considered suicide because you are not attempting to kill yourself, but to stop others from being blown up. You know you are probably going to die, but since you are not intending to kill yourself it is not an unjust killing. Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends".
        defrost 2y ago
        The point is a simple one, in the space of a few comments you've moved from: Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another .. to (paraphrased) except for when justified. meaning that there has been considerable latitude in the reading and interpretation of what in modern english is stated as "Thou shalt not kill" There will be some who interpret: Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends". as making suicide acceptable so as to not place a burden on friends and family due to { reasons }. There are many Christians, Jews, and Muslims in this world and many interpretations of the many and varied texts and translations.

Does the Bible say you shouldn't end your life if you're dying of something incurable and terribly painful?

technion 2y ago

Regardless of what a bible says it is indeed the view of many religious people.

kranke155 2y ago
They probably change their mind pretty quick if they witness a loved one go through endless pain for no reason. Some of them, I'd think. Others, I'm sure, would tell them how much wonderful the gates of heaven will look when they get there.

ImJamal 2y ago

Yes. Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another with the intention of killing yourself.

kranke155 2y ago
Thats odd. Anyway seems like that is a possible reading but not all possible readings.
- ImJamal 2y ago
  If every Jew and Christian until like 100 years ago think that was the correct interpretation then that is the canonical interpretation. Calling in a possible reading is just not correct.
  - defrost 2y ago
    It would seem that many exceptions were carved out to allow Christian led crusades, pograms, etc. Jewish military history is extensive and embraced more than simple stern words: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_military_history https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_military_history.
    - ImJamal 2y ago
      I am not sure what your point even is. What is typically referred to as killing (thou shalt not kill) is referring to murder / unjustified killing. This is how Jews and Christians have interpreted it for almost the entirety of their existence. It is only in the more recent years that a small minority have disagreed. There is no exception because it is not talking about just killings only unjust ones. Wars, and killings within them, can be just (look up just war theory). The point of a war, at least from a Christian perspective, is not to kill people, but to stop an invasion, protect innocents or the like. If it isn't doing that then the war is not just. If you are wanting to kill, rather than protect innocents or whatever then you are fighting for the wrong reason. This is what is known as the principle of double effect. The Crusades were intended to stop the Muslim invasion, regain Christian lands, prevent the fall of the Byzantine Empire, allow for safe travel of pilgrims, etc. Those are considered just things to protect. (Obviously not all people in the Crusades had the same motives, but that is on them not the war in general). Also, just because Christians, Jews, or whoever do something, doesn't mean it is inline with their faith. People justify bad things, ignore teachings, don't actually believe, etc. To give a more modern example and one relevant to the thread, jumping on a live grenade is not considered suicide because you are not attempting to kill yourself, but to stop others from being blown up. You know you are probably going to die, but since you are not intending to kill yourself it is not an unjust killing. Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends".
      - defrost 2y ago
        The point is a simple one, in the space of a few comments you've moved from: Every Jew and Christian, until recently, interpreted thou shall not kill (more accurately translated as murder) as a ban on killing yourself or another .. to (paraphrased) except for when justified. meaning that there has been considerable latitude in the reading and interpretation of what in modern english is stated as "Thou shalt not kill" There will be some who interpret: Jesus said "Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends". as making suicide acceptable so as to not place a burden on friends and family due to { reasons }. There are many Christians, Jews, and Muslims in this world and many interpretations of the many and varied texts and translations.