6 ms·

Every soldier in the German military at that time was a nazi soldier. They reported to hitler, who was the person who brought the nazi party into power, the par

Every soldier in the German military at that time was a nazi soldier. They reported to hitler, who was the person who brought the nazi party into power, the party who controlled the government and military. They took orders from nazis. They were nazis. Their officers had skulls on their uniforms. They were rounding up and slaughtering people they viewed as less than them, they had posters in the streets painting them as rodents and infections. Nobody saw all of that and said “well, I don’t want to dodge a draft, I better just sign up and do this evil shit, it’s my moral duty to serve”. Nobody was blind to what was happening and nobody accidentally went and did those things without believing they were somehow right. They were doing those things because they wanted to, the same way everything any person does when they have something that they have the power over to choose between. Edit: not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Downvote the people trying to claim German soldiers in wwII were not nazis.

aguaviva 2y ago
You're getting downvoted because what you're saying is just historically wrong. You can call them all "bad" if you want. But (regardless of whether they committed war crimes) the Nazis and the armed forces were different (though obviously overlapping) subsets. This is not an academic distinction at all, and is extremely important if one is to understand how the dictatorship and the Final Solution actually worked. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276731
- wutwutwat 2y ago
  > The German Army (German: Heer, German: [heːɐ̯] ⓘ; lit. 'army') was the land forces component of the Wehrmacht,[b] the regular armed forces of Nazi Germany, from 1935 until it effectively ceased to exist in 1945 and then was formally dissolved in August 1946.[4] During World War II, a total of about 13.6 million volunteers and conscripts served in the German Army. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(1935%E2%80%931945) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(1935%E2%80%9319... So far, seems one army existed. The German army. That army was the army of Nazi Germany. that army was Nazi Germany‘s army. > The Wehrmacht (German pronunciation: [ˈveːɐ̯maxt] ⓘ, lit. 'defence force') were the unified armed forces of Nazi Germany from 1935 to 1945. It consisted of the Heer (army), the Kriegsmarine (navy) and the Luftwaffe (air force). The designation "Wehrmacht" replaced the previously used term Reichswehr (Reich Defence) and was the manifestation of the Nazi regime's efforts to rearm Germany to a greater extent than the Treaty of Versailles permitted.[11] Here’s probably the most important thing to read, because it directly disproves you > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Here’s probably the most important thing to read, because it directly disproves you It's not the snippets you're quoting that are wrong. You're just reading them wrong, and drawing plainly broken inferences from them. For example, the statement "Army X was a manifestation of the Y regime's Z" does not imply the statement "Army X is simply a subset of Y" or even "Everyone in Army X basically agreed with Y". Of course it doesn't. Any more than being a member of the Red Army meant that one was communist, simply because it happens to be true that "The Red Army was the army of Soviet Russia". Similarly, this idea that people taking an oath to anyone or their platitudes means, in all cases, they actually believe that oath, and that what the oath says describes what they believe. In the context of the huge fact that not everyone who joined the various fighting units did so voluntarily -- in fact a large majority were outright drafted (or shoehorned from civilian law enforcement roles, including many regular policemen). Does that excuse them of culpability in what they may have done -- obviously not. But to think they simply believed everything they were asked to believe at face value goes against everything we know about human nature, and the basic social reality of was going on in Germany and Europe at the time. And about the fundamental psychological and operational mechanics by which the Final Solution worked. And then there's this: That army was the army of Nazi Germany. That army was Nazi Germany‘s army. As if simply calling Germany "Nazi Germany" adds some weight to the point you're trying to make. Of course it doesn't. As a simple, direct proof of this -- let's just drop the unnecessary instances of your favorite word in that sentence: That army was the army of Germany. That army was Germany‘s army. And ask ourselves how much sense it makes.
    - wutwutwat 2y ago
      > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler. Only one way to read it. The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
- lolinder 2y ago
  > This is not an academic distinction at all, and is extremely important if one is to understand how the dictatorship and the Final Solution actually worked. Exactly. And understanding this is vitally important—labeling every member of the German military a "Nazi" can create the dangerous illusion that the ratio of nut jobs to normal people in 1930s Germany was dramatically different than it is in 2020s USA/UK/EU/wherever, but it's not. The ratios were about the same, and most people who were complicit in the Nazi atrocities were complicit in a very passive, "don't stand out" kind of way. Exaggerating the number of true Nazis ironically makes it more likely that something similar will happen again because it creates the false impression that you need some sort of overwhelming consensus in favor of pure evil to end up with a Hitler in charge. It allows us to let our guard down because we know that we aren't surrounded by Nazis, so such a thing must be very far away indeed, right?
ajuc 2y ago
I agree we shouldn't let "regular Germans" from that time escape the responsibility for WW2. Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too late. But you wrote "every soldier in German military" which is just wrong. German military had many soldiers forcibly drafted from occupied countries. One famous example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Tusk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Tusk People downvote you because you were confidently wrong.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- wutwutwat 2y ago
  > I agree we shouldn't let "regular Germans" from that time escape the responsibility for WW2. Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too late. I did not say any of this, ever. Read my comment. Don’t put words in my mouth. > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
  - Teever 2y ago
    Have you taken any history courses on this subject, or have any sort of academic experience that would make you qualified to take the position that you're taking here with such confidence?
  - ajuc 2y ago
bryanrasmussen 2y ago
As much as I dislike Nazis I'm going to have to disagree, there were Germans who were not Nazis in all walks of life including the military, and even every member of the Nazi party was not necessarily bad - Oskar Schindler was, after all, a member of the Nazi party. >Nobody saw all of that and said “well, I don’t want to dodge a draft... Nobody saw all of that and said, shit if I dodge the draft they may give me the death penalty, no wait I'm wrong - that's exactly what they said. You also do not seem to have any particular dividing line between say, soldiers who were underage (later years of war) or actual adults? This article on American slavery seems to pertain here too https://medium.com/luminasticity/what-makes-you-think-you-would-have-been-better-600789629752 https://medium.com/luminasticity/what-makes-you-think-you-wo... - what makes you think you would have been better - not you now, but a you born in Germany during the great Depression, came of age as World War II started, drafted into the Army but because of your character you would be able to stand against your society, your friends, the law and say no, I won't go. I'm not saying that's impossible, but it is rare. On what grounds of your character do you think you would be better than most of the population at that time? What great wrong have you opposed to your detriment and personal danger? Again - it may be that you would be better than almost everybody else at the time. But it seems more people think they would be than seems statistically possible, based on nothing other than being born "now" and knowing it is wrong "now", I would like some sterner examples of character to back up the moral self-regard.
- wutwutwat 2y ago
  Disagree with facts all you want. I don’t care. Neither do the facts. > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
BenFranklin100 2y ago
You are getting downvoted because we are witnessing the beginning of the rehabilitation of WWII Germany. Contemporary leftists view politics through an oppressor-oppressed framework and Jews belong to the oppressor class. Acknowledging the widespread, virulent antisemitism in 1930s Germany lends sympathy to Jews. In turn, this sympathy lends legitimacy to the establishment of the state of Israel. As such, Leftists are attempting to characterize Nazis and antisemitism as a minority movement in 1920-30s Germany. The end goal is to paint the Holocaust as simply one of many historical genocides, and one which is equivalent to what has happened in Palestine over the last 20 years.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  You are getting downvoted because we are witnessing the beginning of the rehabilitation of WWII Germany. That's just divisive rhetoric. Nothing of the sort is happening. The end goal is to paint the Holocaust as simply one of many historical genocides, Except it isn't. You may think it's the goal that some people have. But that doesn't mean it is their goal. And anyway there's no need to "paint" the situation that way because it has been a known and obvious historical point all along. The simple fact is that there have been countless genocides throughout history. The genocide of European Jewry was definitely among the largest, and was quite distinctive in certain ways. But unfortunately it was by no means unique, or even a true outlier. This is just basic history.
  - BenFranklin100 2y ago
    You prove my point.
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      Not even. But if you think I do, well, that can't be helped I guess.
      - BenFranklin100 2y ago
        I see you are operating a couple of accounts. You leftists never learn.

aguaviva 2y ago

You're getting downvoted because what you're saying is just historically wrong. You can call them all "bad" if you want. But (regardless of whether they committed war crimes) the Nazis and the armed forces were different (though obviously overlapping) subsets. This is not an academic distinction at all, and is extremely important if one is to understand how the dictatorship and the Final Solution actually worked. See also: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276731 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42276731

wutwutwat 2y ago
> The German Army (German: Heer, German: [heːɐ̯] ⓘ; lit. 'army') was the land forces component of the Wehrmacht,[b] the regular armed forces of Nazi Germany, from 1935 until it effectively ceased to exist in 1945 and then was formally dissolved in August 1946.[4] During World War II, a total of about 13.6 million volunteers and conscripts served in the German Army. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(1935%E2%80%931945) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_Army_(1935%E2%80%9319... So far, seems one army existed. The German army. That army was the army of Nazi Germany. that army was Nazi Germany‘s army. > The Wehrmacht (German pronunciation: [ˈveːɐ̯maxt] ⓘ, lit. 'defence force') were the unified armed forces of Nazi Germany from 1935 to 1945. It consisted of the Heer (army), the Kriegsmarine (navy) and the Luftwaffe (air force). The designation "Wehrmacht" replaced the previously used term Reichswehr (Reich Defence) and was the manifestation of the Nazi regime's efforts to rearm Germany to a greater extent than the Treaty of Versailles permitted.[11] Here’s probably the most important thing to read, because it directly disproves you > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  Here’s probably the most important thing to read, because it directly disproves you It's not the snippets you're quoting that are wrong. You're just reading them wrong, and drawing plainly broken inferences from them. For example, the statement "Army X was a manifestation of the Y regime's Z" does not imply the statement "Army X is simply a subset of Y" or even "Everyone in Army X basically agreed with Y". Of course it doesn't. Any more than being a member of the Red Army meant that one was communist, simply because it happens to be true that "The Red Army was the army of Soviet Russia". Similarly, this idea that people taking an oath to anyone or their platitudes means, in all cases, they actually believe that oath, and that what the oath says describes what they believe. In the context of the huge fact that not everyone who joined the various fighting units did so voluntarily -- in fact a large majority were outright drafted (or shoehorned from civilian law enforcement roles, including many regular policemen). Does that excuse them of culpability in what they may have done -- obviously not. But to think they simply believed everything they were asked to believe at face value goes against everything we know about human nature, and the basic social reality of was going on in Germany and Europe at the time. And about the fundamental psychological and operational mechanics by which the Final Solution worked. And then there's this: That army was the army of Nazi Germany. That army was Nazi Germany‘s army. As if simply calling Germany "Nazi Germany" adds some weight to the point you're trying to make. Of course it doesn't. As a simple, direct proof of this -- let's just drop the unnecessary instances of your favorite word in that sentence: That army was the army of Germany. That army was Germany‘s army. And ask ourselves how much sense it makes.
  - wutwutwat 2y ago
    > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler. Only one way to read it. The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
lolinder 2y ago
> This is not an academic distinction at all, and is extremely important if one is to understand how the dictatorship and the Final Solution actually worked. Exactly. And understanding this is vitally important—labeling every member of the German military a "Nazi" can create the dangerous illusion that the ratio of nut jobs to normal people in 1930s Germany was dramatically different than it is in 2020s USA/UK/EU/wherever, but it's not. The ratios were about the same, and most people who were complicit in the Nazi atrocities were complicit in a very passive, "don't stand out" kind of way. Exaggerating the number of true Nazis ironically makes it more likely that something similar will happen again because it creates the false impression that you need some sort of overwhelming consensus in favor of pure evil to end up with a Hitler in charge. It allows us to let our guard down because we know that we aren't surrounded by Nazis, so such a thing must be very far away indeed, right?

ajuc 2y ago

I agree we shouldn't let "regular Germans" from that time escape the responsibility for WW2. Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too late. But you wrote "every soldier in German military" which is just wrong. German military had many soldiers forcibly drafted from occupied countries. One famous example is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Tusk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_Tusk People downvote you because you were confidently wrong.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
wutwutwat 2y ago
> I agree we shouldn't let "regular Germans" from that time escape the responsibility for WW2. Be it through voting for Hitler, supporting nazis in other ways, or simply ignoring the threat and not uniting and voting against Hitler before it was too late. I did not say any of this, ever. Read my comment. Don’t put words in my mouth. > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.
- Teever 2y ago
  Have you taken any history courses on this subject, or have any sort of academic experience that would make you qualified to take the position that you're taking here with such confidence?
- ajuc 2y ago

bryanrasmussen 2y ago

As much as I dislike Nazis I'm going to have to disagree, there were Germans who were not Nazis in all walks of life including the military, and even every member of the Nazi party was not necessarily bad - Oskar Schindler was, after all, a member of the Nazi party. >Nobody saw all of that and said “well, I don’t want to dodge a draft... Nobody saw all of that and said, shit if I dodge the draft they may give me the death penalty, no wait I'm wrong - that's exactly what they said. You also do not seem to have any particular dividing line between say, soldiers who were underage (later years of war) or actual adults? This article on American slavery seems to pertain here too https://medium.com/luminasticity/what-makes-you-think-you-would-have-been-better-600789629752 https://medium.com/luminasticity/what-makes-you-think-you-wo... - what makes you think you would have been better - not you now, but a you born in Germany during the great Depression, came of age as World War II started, drafted into the Army but because of your character you would be able to stand against your society, your friends, the law and say no, I won't go. I'm not saying that's impossible, but it is rare. On what grounds of your character do you think you would be better than most of the population at that time? What great wrong have you opposed to your detriment and personal danger? Again - it may be that you would be better than almost everybody else at the time. But it seems more people think they would be than seems statistically possible, based on nothing other than being born "now" and knowing it is wrong "now", I would like some sterner examples of character to back up the moral self-regard.

wutwutwat 2y ago
Disagree with facts all you want. I don’t care. Neither do the facts. > After the death of President Paul von Hindenburg on 2 August 1934, Adolf Hitler assumed the office of President of Germany, and thus became commander in chief. In February 1934, the Defence Minister Werner von Blomberg, acting on his own initiative, had all of the Jews serving in the Reichswehr given an automatic and immediate dishonorable discharge.[33] Again, on his own initiative Blomberg had the armed forces adopt Nazi symbols into their uniforms in May 1934.[34] In August of the same year, on Blomberg's initiative and that of the Ministeramt chief General Walther von Reichenau, the entire military took the Hitler oath, an oath of personal loyalty to Hitler. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wehrmacht The German army adopted Nazi symbols and swore an oath to hitler.

BenFranklin100 2y ago

You are getting downvoted because we are witnessing the beginning of the rehabilitation of WWII Germany. Contemporary leftists view politics through an oppressor-oppressed framework and Jews belong to the oppressor class. Acknowledging the widespread, virulent antisemitism in 1930s Germany lends sympathy to Jews. In turn, this sympathy lends legitimacy to the establishment of the state of Israel. As such, Leftists are attempting to characterize Nazis and antisemitism as a minority movement in 1920-30s Germany. The end goal is to paint the Holocaust as simply one of many historical genocides, and one which is equivalent to what has happened in Palestine over the last 20 years.

aguaviva 2y ago
You are getting downvoted because we are witnessing the beginning of the rehabilitation of WWII Germany. That's just divisive rhetoric. Nothing of the sort is happening. The end goal is to paint the Holocaust as simply one of many historical genocides, Except it isn't. You may think it's the goal that some people have. But that doesn't mean it is their goal. And anyway there's no need to "paint" the situation that way because it has been a known and obvious historical point all along. The simple fact is that there have been countless genocides throughout history. The genocide of European Jewry was definitely among the largest, and was quite distinctive in certain ways. But unfortunately it was by no means unique, or even a true outlier. This is just basic history.
- BenFranklin100 2y ago
  You prove my point.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    Not even. But if you think I do, well, that can't be helped I guess.
    - BenFranklin100 2y ago
      I see you are operating a couple of accounts. You leftists never learn.