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the very idea of "this digital asset is exclusively mine" cannot die soon enough let real physically tangible assets keep the exclusivity problem let's not un

the very idea of "this digital asset is exclusively mine" cannot die soon enough let real physically tangible assets keep the exclusivity problem let's not undo the advantages unlocked by the digital internet; let us prevent a few from locking down this grand boon of digital abundance such that the problem becomes saturation of data let us say no to digital scarcity

cess11 2y ago
I think you'll find that most people aren't comfortable with this in practice. They'd like e.g. the state to be able to keep secrets, such as personal information regarding citizens and the stuff foreign spies would like to copy.
- jMyles 2y ago
  Obviously we're all impacted in these perceptions by our bubbles, but it would surprise me at this particular moment in the history of US politics to find that most people favor the existence of the state at all, let alone its ability to keep secret personal information regarding citizens.
  - goatlover 2y ago
    Most people aren't anarchists, and think the state is necessary for complex societies to function.
    - jMyles 2y ago
      My sense is that the constituency of people who prefer deprecation of the US state is much larger than just anarchists.
      - noitpmeder 2y ago
        Sound like you exist in some very insulated bubbles.
      - warkdarrior 2y ago
        Would this deprecation of the state include disbanding the police and the armed forces? I'm guessing the people who are for the deprecation of the state would answer quite differently if the question specified details of government functions.
        jMyles 2y ago
        ...I mean, police are deeply unpopular in the American political consciousness, and have been since prior to their rebrand from "slave patrols" in the 19th century. Surely you recall that, only four years ago, millions of people took to the streets calling for a completion to the unfinished business of abolition? Obviously the armed forces are much less despised than the police. But given that private gun ownership is at an all-time high (with woman and people of color - historically marginalized groups with regard to arms equality - making up the lion's share of the recent increase), I'm not sure that people are feeling particularly vulnerable to invasion either. Is the state really that popular in your circle? How do people express their esteem? Am I just missing it?
  - cess11 2y ago
    Really? Are Food Not Bombs and the IWW that popular we're you live?
CaptainFever 2y ago
This is, in fact, the core value of the hacker ethos. HackerNews. > The belief that information-sharing is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of hackers to share their expertise by writing open-source code and facilitating access to information and to computing resources wherever possible. > Most hackers subscribe to the hacker ethic in sense 1, and many act on it by writing and giving away open-source software. A few go further and assert that all information should be free and any proprietary control of it is bad; this is the philosophy behind the GNU project. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker-ethic.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker-ethic.html Perhaps if the Internet didn't kill copyright, AI will. (Hyperbole) (Personally my belief is more nuanced than this; I'm fine with very limited copyright, but my belief is closer to yours than the current system we have.)
- ysofunny 2y ago
  oh please, then, riddle me why does my comment has -1 votes on "hacker" news which has indeed turned into "i-am-rich-cuz-i-own-tech-stock"news
  - CaptainFever 2y ago
    Yes, I have no idea either. I find it disappointing. I think people simply like it when data is liberated from corporations, but hate it when data is liberated from them. (Though this case is a corporation too so idk. Maybe just "AI bad"?)
  - alwa 2y ago
    I did not contribute a vote either way to your comment above, but I would point out that you get more of what you reward. Maybe the reward is monetary, like an author paid for spending their life writing books. Maybe it’s smaller, more reputational or social—like people who generate thoughtful commentary here, or Wikipedia’s editors, or hobbyists’ forums. When you strip people’s names from their words, as the specific count here charges; and you strip out any reason or even way for people to reward good work when they appreciate it; and you put the disembodied words in the mouth of a monolithic, anthropomorphized statistical model tuned to mimic a conversation partner… what type of thought is it that becomes abundant in this world you propose, of “data abundance”? In that world, the only people who still have incentive to create are the ones whose content has negative value, who make things people otherwise wouldn’t want to see: advertisers, spammers, propagandists, trolls… where’s the upside of a world saturated with that?
guerrilla 2y ago
Sure, as soon as people have an alternative way to survive.

cess11 2y ago

I think you'll find that most people aren't comfortable with this in practice. They'd like e.g. the state to be able to keep secrets, such as personal information regarding citizens and the stuff foreign spies would like to copy.

jMyles 2y ago
Obviously we're all impacted in these perceptions by our bubbles, but it would surprise me at this particular moment in the history of US politics to find that most people favor the existence of the state at all, let alone its ability to keep secret personal information regarding citizens.
- goatlover 2y ago
  Most people aren't anarchists, and think the state is necessary for complex societies to function.
  - jMyles 2y ago
    My sense is that the constituency of people who prefer deprecation of the US state is much larger than just anarchists.
    - noitpmeder 2y ago
      Sound like you exist in some very insulated bubbles.
    - warkdarrior 2y ago
      Would this deprecation of the state include disbanding the police and the armed forces? I'm guessing the people who are for the deprecation of the state would answer quite differently if the question specified details of government functions.
      - jMyles 2y ago
        ...I mean, police are deeply unpopular in the American political consciousness, and have been since prior to their rebrand from "slave patrols" in the 19th century. Surely you recall that, only four years ago, millions of people took to the streets calling for a completion to the unfinished business of abolition? Obviously the armed forces are much less despised than the police. But given that private gun ownership is at an all-time high (with woman and people of color - historically marginalized groups with regard to arms equality - making up the lion's share of the recent increase), I'm not sure that people are feeling particularly vulnerable to invasion either. Is the state really that popular in your circle? How do people express their esteem? Am I just missing it?
- cess11 2y ago
  Really? Are Food Not Bombs and the IWW that popular we're you live?

CaptainFever 2y ago

This is, in fact, the core value of the hacker ethos. HackerNews. > The belief that information-sharing is a powerful positive good, and that it is an ethical duty of hackers to share their expertise by writing open-source code and facilitating access to information and to computing resources wherever possible. > Most hackers subscribe to the hacker ethic in sense 1, and many act on it by writing and giving away open-source software. A few go further and assert that all information should be free and any proprietary control of it is bad; this is the philosophy behind the GNU project. http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker-ethic.html http://www.catb.org/jargon/html/H/hacker-ethic.html Perhaps if the Internet didn't kill copyright, AI will. (Hyperbole) (Personally my belief is more nuanced than this; I'm fine with very limited copyright, but my belief is closer to yours than the current system we have.)

ysofunny 2y ago
oh please, then, riddle me why does my comment has -1 votes on "hacker" news which has indeed turned into "i-am-rich-cuz-i-own-tech-stock"news
- CaptainFever 2y ago
  Yes, I have no idea either. I find it disappointing. I think people simply like it when data is liberated from corporations, but hate it when data is liberated from them. (Though this case is a corporation too so idk. Maybe just "AI bad"?)
- alwa 2y ago
  I did not contribute a vote either way to your comment above, but I would point out that you get more of what you reward. Maybe the reward is monetary, like an author paid for spending their life writing books. Maybe it’s smaller, more reputational or social—like people who generate thoughtful commentary here, or Wikipedia’s editors, or hobbyists’ forums. When you strip people’s names from their words, as the specific count here charges; and you strip out any reason or even way for people to reward good work when they appreciate it; and you put the disembodied words in the mouth of a monolithic, anthropomorphized statistical model tuned to mimic a conversation partner… what type of thought is it that becomes abundant in this world you propose, of “data abundance”? In that world, the only people who still have incentive to create are the ones whose content has negative value, who make things people otherwise wouldn’t want to see: advertisers, spammers, propagandists, trolls… where’s the upside of a world saturated with that?

guerrilla 2y ago

Sure, as soon as people have an alternative way to survive.