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So is there some evidence of sabotage? Now that they've repaired the damage they should know, right? Or was this whole thing all just manufactured accusations

So is there some evidence of sabotage? Now that they've repaired the damage they should know, right? Or was this whole thing all just manufactured accusations and scaremongering by the western governments and press?

alkonaut 2y ago
That conclusion probably takes some time. Even if they found some evidence now, we're unlikely to hear about it until the investigations are wrapped up. And there are multiple criminal investigations in at least 3 countries, so it won't be this year.
- jacknews 2y ago
  I'm fairly confident that if there was any evidence what so ever of sabotage, we'd be hearing it now, loud and clear. Perhaps not the 'who' but certainly the 'done it'.
  - Hamuko 2y ago
    https://archive.is/3weox https://archive.is/3weox
    - aguaviva 2y ago
      No one likes following blind links. If there's something to the content of whatever you're pointing people at - please summarize.
heraldgeezer 2y ago
The ship went over 2 cables and dragged its anchor 100 miles. They knew what they were doing. Don't try and play coy ruskie.
- jacknews 2y ago
  OK Mr McCarthy, where is this documented? And that it was deliberate? Are you talking about the Chinese ship? Why would they do that? fyi I'm a westerner, just maybe not so enveloped in the bubble so many of you seem to be.
  - heraldgeezer 2y ago
    Documented? A foreign nation won't really give us the docs buddy. Deliberate? If it was not they would say so. China and Russia are allies against the west. I am fine here in my bubble of truth. And I get it, I really do. You saw some Oliver Stone films that lists all the bad things the EU and USA has done and saw Michel Moore go to Cuba for cancer treatment. But now, Russia especially is worse. The Cold War never ended. The west knows best, not in EVERYTHING, free healthcare, university, and access to abortion is good, but we have all that in Sweden an EU country. There is no need to go full commie my dude.
    - jacknews 2y ago
      "Documented? A foreign nation won't really give us the docs buddy." So how do you know this 'fact' then? It's possible it was deliberate of course. But for now there is only circumstantial evidence and brazen finger-pointing at Russia, just like Nordstream. Except in that case it was most likely the US, not Russia. "I am fine here in my bubble of truth." lol, none are so blind as those who will not even look. Of course Russia is a corrupt dictatorship with a deliberate policy of sowing lies and chaos, and China is on the same road. But look at your (our) own governments, they are far from the angels you seem to believe them to be.
      - heraldgeezer 2y ago
        >Of course Russia is a corrupt dictatorship with a deliberate policy of sowing lies and chaos, and China is on the same road. But look at your (our) own governments, they are far from the angels you seem to believe them to be. "Both sides equally bad" is a Russian talking point/propaganda. You fell for it, congrats. Has the USA and EU/WEST done bad things. Yes. Is there corruption? Yes. But at least my country has all indoor plumbing... like at some point one thing is better over the other. For quality of life I would rather be in the EU rather than the USA sure. You cannot put western governments to a perfect standard and russia/china as inperfect. China is trying the same sneaky shit being classed as Third World country for climate and economy to get grants.
lrasinen 2y ago
The last time there was cable and gas pipe damage in the Baltic, it took about two weeks for the investigators to do their thing and hold a press briefing. Some details ("mechanical damage, doesn't look like an explosion") had been published before, but most of the investigation results were publicized all at once. What is publicly known this time: when and where the cables were cut (locations approximately, times accurately), and that there's a Chinese ship (Yi Peng 3) that was followed by Danish navy vessels, and the ship has been anchored for a week with constant guard from German and Danish (and possibly Swedish) navy. There's a video[1] by a Finnish sea captain with MarineTraffic history access going over the track of YP3. Since it's in Finnish, a brief summary (or try your luck with auto-translation): 1) The ship sets off with a speed of 9-10 knots, but then slows down to 5-6 knots for 400 km or so, before returning to 9-10 knots. While weather could be a factor, other ships in the area experience no slowdowns. 2) The ship crosses the cables right around the reported break times. 3) There is an additional slowdown to 3-4 knots near a known underwater sand ridge. 4) The ships heading jumps around a bit; again, the other ships do not do this. 5) There is a missing portion in AIS data; however, this is seen with other ships as well. Now, this is all circumstantial evidence, but is consistent with dragging the anchor on the seafloor for an extended period of time. Calling it sabotage would require establishing malicious intent, of course. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0

alkonaut 2y ago

That conclusion probably takes some time. Even if they found some evidence now, we're unlikely to hear about it until the investigations are wrapped up. And there are multiple criminal investigations in at least 3 countries, so it won't be this year.

jacknews 2y ago
I'm fairly confident that if there was any evidence what so ever of sabotage, we'd be hearing it now, loud and clear. Perhaps not the 'who' but certainly the 'done it'.
- Hamuko 2y ago
  https://archive.is/3weox https://archive.is/3weox
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    No one likes following blind links. If there's something to the content of whatever you're pointing people at - please summarize.

heraldgeezer 2y ago

The ship went over 2 cables and dragged its anchor 100 miles. They knew what they were doing. Don't try and play coy ruskie.

jacknews 2y ago
OK Mr McCarthy, where is this documented? And that it was deliberate? Are you talking about the Chinese ship? Why would they do that? fyi I'm a westerner, just maybe not so enveloped in the bubble so many of you seem to be.
- heraldgeezer 2y ago
  Documented? A foreign nation won't really give us the docs buddy. Deliberate? If it was not they would say so. China and Russia are allies against the west. I am fine here in my bubble of truth. And I get it, I really do. You saw some Oliver Stone films that lists all the bad things the EU and USA has done and saw Michel Moore go to Cuba for cancer treatment. But now, Russia especially is worse. The Cold War never ended. The west knows best, not in EVERYTHING, free healthcare, university, and access to abortion is good, but we have all that in Sweden an EU country. There is no need to go full commie my dude.
  - jacknews 2y ago
    "Documented? A foreign nation won't really give us the docs buddy." So how do you know this 'fact' then? It's possible it was deliberate of course. But for now there is only circumstantial evidence and brazen finger-pointing at Russia, just like Nordstream. Except in that case it was most likely the US, not Russia. "I am fine here in my bubble of truth." lol, none are so blind as those who will not even look. Of course Russia is a corrupt dictatorship with a deliberate policy of sowing lies and chaos, and China is on the same road. But look at your (our) own governments, they are far from the angels you seem to believe them to be.
    - heraldgeezer 2y ago
      >Of course Russia is a corrupt dictatorship with a deliberate policy of sowing lies and chaos, and China is on the same road. But look at your (our) own governments, they are far from the angels you seem to believe them to be. "Both sides equally bad" is a Russian talking point/propaganda. You fell for it, congrats. Has the USA and EU/WEST done bad things. Yes. Is there corruption? Yes. But at least my country has all indoor plumbing... like at some point one thing is better over the other. For quality of life I would rather be in the EU rather than the USA sure. You cannot put western governments to a perfect standard and russia/china as inperfect. China is trying the same sneaky shit being classed as Third World country for climate and economy to get grants.

lrasinen 2y ago

The last time there was cable and gas pipe damage in the Baltic, it took about two weeks for the investigators to do their thing and hold a press briefing. Some details ("mechanical damage, doesn't look like an explosion") had been published before, but most of the investigation results were publicized all at once. What is publicly known this time: when and where the cables were cut (locations approximately, times accurately), and that there's a Chinese ship (Yi Peng 3) that was followed by Danish navy vessels, and the ship has been anchored for a week with constant guard from German and Danish (and possibly Swedish) navy. There's a video[1] by a Finnish sea captain with MarineTraffic history access going over the track of YP3. Since it's in Finnish, a brief summary (or try your luck with auto-translation): 1) The ship sets off with a speed of 9-10 knots, but then slows down to 5-6 knots for 400 km or so, before returning to 9-10 knots. While weather could be a factor, other ships in the area experience no slowdowns. 2) The ship crosses the cables right around the reported break times. 3) There is an additional slowdown to 3-4 knots near a known underwater sand ridge. 4) The ships heading jumps around a bit; again, the other ships do not do this. 5) There is a missing portion in AIS data; however, this is seen with other ships as well. Now, this is all circumstantial evidence, but is consistent with dragging the anchor on the seafloor for an extended period of time. Calling it sabotage would require establishing malicious intent, of course. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB-vEp3wr-0