3 ms·

Tragedy of the commons. Simple solution: congestion prices. Singapore is an example. Any others?

anewaccountname 18y ago
Ayn Rand it and just allow private ownership of the roads everywhere. Totally ad-hoc, with non-standard markings, conventions, and traffic "laws" that would show up in your road contract. You would have to read the road contract everytime you drove through a new area with roads operated by a different company. That is until a savior road monopolist finally took over all the markets by getting the largest established base and then using his network effect advantage to lock out other roads until they all caved in. Said monopolist could just eliminate the congestion by fiat.
- zitterbewegung 18y ago
  No offense but hypothetically if we had private ownership they would agree with a standard marking. Its naive to assume otherwise. I don't agree with ayn rand on all things but corporations have standards....
  - anewaccountname 18y ago
    Countries have private ownership of their roads with respect to other countries, and they all have their own markings, traffic laws, etc.
    - deleted 18y ago
      [deleted]
    - Retric 18y ago
      Nope. Several countries in Europe use the same markings. PS: There is a reason you can get an International Driver's License.
      - captainobvious 18y ago
        The EU practically is a country. There are plenty of other counter examples, mostly countries that were formally some part of an imperialist empire, or essentially still are (many countries in the Caribbean).
        Retric 18y ago
        When your an island it's not that important but counties that share borders tend to have similar road markings, signs, stoplights etc.
    - gojomo 18y ago
      The differences between countries' marking and traffic laws are small compared to the broad commonalities. Close countries tend to harmonize. And a network of interlinked but mildly competitive roads in a single country would have even stronger incentives to harmonize. But also: a trend in traffic control is to reduce the markings, so that people pay closer attention, using their innate intelligence to drive cooperatively. (The idea goes by the names 'psychological traffic calming' or 'naked roads'.) Speeds go down a little; accidents go down a lot. It seems traditional markings lead to overconfidence -- a destructive abdication of personal responsibility to the authoritative sign-makers. So even if a patchwork of private roads couldn't agree on any signage standards, and just tore out all the signs (as the safest, liability-reducing option), we might wind up better off. (But of course, freeways and major thoroughfares/intersections would just work the same as they do absolutely everywhere else, under any ownership system.)
- daniel-cussen 18y ago
  Or you could use privatization and use a tiny, well-placed amount of carefully considered government intervention and have awesome results. Example: The East Side of Santiago de Chile. Tolls do not slow traffic because they are done by RFID tags and ... OK, I don't have that much data behind me, but the data point that is Daniel Cussen says the system is effective. People I talk to generally agree.
- aswanson 18y ago
  And the unwashed masses would put up with 10 different traffic sign symbolic paradigms and roadblocks by the local owners because they simply felt like blocking traffic for better prices...this wouldn't cause the slightest stir among the millions of people and commerce it would affect...would it?
pchristensen 18y ago
Also London and Stockholm for downtown areas. The 91 Express Lanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/91_Express_Lanes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/91_Express_Lanes) in Orange County are an interesting case - instead of charging a fixed toll to enter an area, there is a variable toll on a 10 mile stretch of freeway. There are 4 free lanes in each direction and 2 reversible toll lanes that go with the rush. Tolls vary from free (at night) to $10 on Friday afternoon. One concern about these variable toll lanes is that they would only be used by the rich, but studies of license plates of drivers showed that every demographic used them about once a week, rather than every day or never. Pretty cool what happens when people have the option to pay more for better service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing

Ayn Rand it and just allow private ownership of the roads everywhere. Totally ad-hoc, with non-standard markings, conventions, and traffic "laws" that would show up in your road contract. You would have to read the road contract everytime you drove through a new area with roads operated by a different company. That is until a savior road monopolist finally took over all the markets by getting the largest established base and then using his network effect advantage to lock out other roads until they all caved in. Said monopolist could just eliminate the congestion by fiat.

zitterbewegung 18y ago
No offense but hypothetically if we had private ownership they would agree with a standard marking. Its naive to assume otherwise. I don't agree with ayn rand on all things but corporations have standards....
- anewaccountname 18y ago
  Countries have private ownership of their roads with respect to other countries, and they all have their own markings, traffic laws, etc.
  - deleted 18y ago
    [deleted]
  - Retric 18y ago
    Nope. Several countries in Europe use the same markings. PS: There is a reason you can get an International Driver's License.
    - captainobvious 18y ago
      The EU practically is a country. There are plenty of other counter examples, mostly countries that were formally some part of an imperialist empire, or essentially still are (many countries in the Caribbean).
      - Retric 18y ago
        When your an island it's not that important but counties that share borders tend to have similar road markings, signs, stoplights etc.
  - gojomo 18y ago
    The differences between countries' marking and traffic laws are small compared to the broad commonalities. Close countries tend to harmonize. And a network of interlinked but mildly competitive roads in a single country would have even stronger incentives to harmonize. But also: a trend in traffic control is to reduce the markings, so that people pay closer attention, using their innate intelligence to drive cooperatively. (The idea goes by the names 'psychological traffic calming' or 'naked roads'.) Speeds go down a little; accidents go down a lot. It seems traditional markings lead to overconfidence -- a destructive abdication of personal responsibility to the authoritative sign-makers. So even if a patchwork of private roads couldn't agree on any signage standards, and just tore out all the signs (as the safest, liability-reducing option), we might wind up better off. (But of course, freeways and major thoroughfares/intersections would just work the same as they do absolutely everywhere else, under any ownership system.)
daniel-cussen 18y ago
Or you could use privatization and use a tiny, well-placed amount of carefully considered government intervention and have awesome results. Example: The East Side of Santiago de Chile. Tolls do not slow traffic because they are done by RFID tags and ... OK, I don't have that much data behind me, but the data point that is Daniel Cussen says the system is effective. People I talk to generally agree.
aswanson 18y ago
And the unwashed masses would put up with 10 different traffic sign symbolic paradigms and roadblocks by the local owners because they simply felt like blocking traffic for better prices...this wouldn't cause the slightest stir among the millions of people and commerce it would affect...would it?

pchristensen 18y ago

Also London and Stockholm for downtown areas. The 91 Express Lanes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/91_Express_Lanes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/91_Express_Lanes) in Orange County are an interesting case - instead of charging a fixed toll to enter an area, there is a variable toll on a 10 mile stretch of freeway. There are 4 free lanes in each direction and 2 reversible toll lanes that go with the rush. Tolls vary from free (at night) to $10 on Friday afternoon. One concern about these variable toll lanes is that they would only be used by the rich, but studies of license plates of drivers showed that every demographic used them about once a week, rather than every day or never. Pretty cool what happens when people have the option to pay more for better service. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Congestion_pricing