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Don't worry, in Europe, the incumbent manufacturers have a much better way to prevent EV sales: lack of charging spots. Unless you are rich enough to own a hous

Don't worry, in Europe, the incumbent manufacturers have a much better way to prevent EV sales: lack of charging spots. Unless you are rich enough to own a house and install your own charger, the law still does not mandate, even for apartment buildings currently under construction, electrical plugs in parking spots. Which means that, if you rent, you can't buy an EV. If you own your apartment, you STILL can't buy an EV (unless you convince everyone else to spend at least 5k€/spot to install such plugs, and wait 2-3 years).

pbasista 2y ago
That is a fair point. But the car manufacturers have no influence over whether the charging spots are going to be built or not. Even if there is no mandate to have them at the apartment buildings, the customers will naturally prefer those dwellings that do have them. Which in turn will create pressure on the building owners to have them installed.
huijzer 2y ago
I don’t know where you base your claim on. Do you own an electric car in Europe? I live in Europe and own an electric car. There are fast chargers everywhere and also some slow chargers near my house. I mostly drive in the Netherlands and Germany. Charging infrastructure is not a problem at all! If there is a problem though, it’s German electricity prices. Charging is almost as expensive as refueling a car per km.
jjallen 2y ago
I have had an EV in Switzerland for four years. It’s not impossible but is hard. And no we don’t have as many as you think because half the time the ones that purport to be available don’t work. If you drive tons that would be another story. Most trips are shorter so EVs are more viable. I also could have asked to charge from the wall in our building but haven’t had to due to other charging options.
piva00 2y ago
Rented an EV to drive from Stockholm -> München -> Geneva -> Paris, there was plenty chargers to not make me anxious through the whole drive. Europe is a continent, maybe the issue you allude to is more localised? Where exactly in Europe do you see an issue with lack of charging spots?
- golli 2y ago
  I think (as already mentioned in other replies) it is usually less about chargers along major highways, but about charging at home/work. Which is especially relevant in places like Germany, where people primary rent rather than own their home and electricity costs are relatively high. If you can't charge over night for cheap and maybe even combine it with your own solar installation, then EVs are losing a good part of their value proposition.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Many supermarkets had fast chargers in their car parks on my route, as well as chargers along highways, and in cities. Charging overnight as far as I understand is a bonus proposition of EVs but given I could charge the car in about 10 minutes in a fast charger and have more than enough for a day staying in some cities I don't see much difference from ICEs stopping to fill up gas. It's a tad slower but not that much that bothered me and would make me choose an ICE car instead. Even with paying fast chargers' fees it was still much cheaper than paying for petrol.
    - golli 2y ago
      > Charging overnight as far as I understand is a bonus proposition I would disagree with it being just a bonus proposition, since it imo is part of the inherent advantages. And while i do agree with you that in many cases it will still be an overall favorable comparison for EVs vs ICE cars, i think there is no denying that between being able to charge at home for cheap and having to rely on public chargers there's a value (and convenience) difference. I am not really up to date with how pricing looks (so feel free to correct me), but i think in Germany electricity at home is on average like 27ct/kWh, and on public chargers you pay between 40ct on the low end (possibly with some monthly base cost) up to 80ct on the high end for some DC fast chargers.
jillesvangurp 2y ago
There are loads of chargers all over Europe. And of course the most important one is close to where you live which you use for charging most of the time. My parents actually have an EV and rely on neighborhood chargers because their apartment block doesn't have a charger yet. It's fine. A bit of chore to park the car 500m from where they live once a week or so and then unplug it and drive it back to its regular parking spot. They are still saving loads of cash on fuel using only public chargers. Beats having to spend 60-70 euros on petrol. And it's not like they sit around waiting for the thing to charge. Also, you can charge most cars of a regular wall socket. It will be slow. But it works. Or you can use one of the hundreds of thousands of slow chargers in Europe. There are around 0.5M currently. Projected to double to 1M next year and grow to 3M by 2030. Lots of fast chargers too. You can drive all over Europe with an EV. It's petrol car owners that need to start worrying. Who is still supplying petrol? How far to the next working petrol station? The market for petrol and diesel is shrinking as rapidly as the EV market is growing. More, probably, because early adopters tend to be the ones that drive the most. You can't get petrol at home. And if your local petrol station closes, you'll need to drive a bit further. With commercial fleets, lease cars, delivery vans, etc. all going electric in a hurry, there are simply going to be less petrol stations. It's like finding hay or water for your horse when cars became a thing. Not going to be a thing on every street corner.
- Cumpiler69 2y ago
  >There are loads of chargers all over Europe. That's meaningless if the chargers are not at your home or close to where you live. And the public chargers available half are broken or have some issue or terrible UX on payment. Plus long charring time so you need to take time out of your day to go back to the charger and bring your car back home. Terrible UX versus a 3 minute refuel at a gas station and you're done for the week. EVs make the most sense when you have your charger at home, or at least at work. Otherwise UX sucks balls. Imagine not being able to charge your phone at home and always be looking to charge it in public. That would suck, wouldn't it? >It's petrol car owners that need to start worrying. Do you see gas stations closing en-masse yet? I haven't. >delivery vans, etc. all going electric in a hurry They are not in any hurry. Only the national post where I live has some EV delivery vans for virtue signaling and green washing. All the other smaller delivery companies and contractors use diesel vans almost exclusively because they need to actually care about range, saving money and turning a profit.
tuna74 2y ago
I live in a condo (sort of) in northen europe and we put in chargers in all our garages last year.

pbasista 2y ago

That is a fair point. But the car manufacturers have no influence over whether the charging spots are going to be built or not. Even if there is no mandate to have them at the apartment buildings, the customers will naturally prefer those dwellings that do have them. Which in turn will create pressure on the building owners to have them installed.

huijzer 2y ago

I don’t know where you base your claim on. Do you own an electric car in Europe? I live in Europe and own an electric car. There are fast chargers everywhere and also some slow chargers near my house. I mostly drive in the Netherlands and Germany. Charging infrastructure is not a problem at all! If there is a problem though, it’s German electricity prices. Charging is almost as expensive as refueling a car per km.

jjallen 2y ago

I have had an EV in Switzerland for four years. It’s not impossible but is hard. And no we don’t have as many as you think because half the time the ones that purport to be available don’t work. If you drive tons that would be another story. Most trips are shorter so EVs are more viable. I also could have asked to charge from the wall in our building but haven’t had to due to other charging options.

piva00 2y ago

Rented an EV to drive from Stockholm -> München -> Geneva -> Paris, there was plenty chargers to not make me anxious through the whole drive. Europe is a continent, maybe the issue you allude to is more localised? Where exactly in Europe do you see an issue with lack of charging spots?

golli 2y ago
I think (as already mentioned in other replies) it is usually less about chargers along major highways, but about charging at home/work. Which is especially relevant in places like Germany, where people primary rent rather than own their home and electricity costs are relatively high. If you can't charge over night for cheap and maybe even combine it with your own solar installation, then EVs are losing a good part of their value proposition.
- piva00 2y ago
  Many supermarkets had fast chargers in their car parks on my route, as well as chargers along highways, and in cities. Charging overnight as far as I understand is a bonus proposition of EVs but given I could charge the car in about 10 minutes in a fast charger and have more than enough for a day staying in some cities I don't see much difference from ICEs stopping to fill up gas. It's a tad slower but not that much that bothered me and would make me choose an ICE car instead. Even with paying fast chargers' fees it was still much cheaper than paying for petrol.
  - golli 2y ago
    > Charging overnight as far as I understand is a bonus proposition I would disagree with it being just a bonus proposition, since it imo is part of the inherent advantages. And while i do agree with you that in many cases it will still be an overall favorable comparison for EVs vs ICE cars, i think there is no denying that between being able to charge at home for cheap and having to rely on public chargers there's a value (and convenience) difference. I am not really up to date with how pricing looks (so feel free to correct me), but i think in Germany electricity at home is on average like 27ct/kWh, and on public chargers you pay between 40ct on the low end (possibly with some monthly base cost) up to 80ct on the high end for some DC fast chargers.

jillesvangurp 2y ago

There are loads of chargers all over Europe. And of course the most important one is close to where you live which you use for charging most of the time. My parents actually have an EV and rely on neighborhood chargers because their apartment block doesn't have a charger yet. It's fine. A bit of chore to park the car 500m from where they live once a week or so and then unplug it and drive it back to its regular parking spot. They are still saving loads of cash on fuel using only public chargers. Beats having to spend 60-70 euros on petrol. And it's not like they sit around waiting for the thing to charge. Also, you can charge most cars of a regular wall socket. It will be slow. But it works. Or you can use one of the hundreds of thousands of slow chargers in Europe. There are around 0.5M currently. Projected to double to 1M next year and grow to 3M by 2030. Lots of fast chargers too. You can drive all over Europe with an EV. It's petrol car owners that need to start worrying. Who is still supplying petrol? How far to the next working petrol station? The market for petrol and diesel is shrinking as rapidly as the EV market is growing. More, probably, because early adopters tend to be the ones that drive the most. You can't get petrol at home. And if your local petrol station closes, you'll need to drive a bit further. With commercial fleets, lease cars, delivery vans, etc. all going electric in a hurry, there are simply going to be less petrol stations. It's like finding hay or water for your horse when cars became a thing. Not going to be a thing on every street corner.

Cumpiler69 2y ago
>There are loads of chargers all over Europe. That's meaningless if the chargers are not at your home or close to where you live. And the public chargers available half are broken or have some issue or terrible UX on payment. Plus long charring time so you need to take time out of your day to go back to the charger and bring your car back home. Terrible UX versus a 3 minute refuel at a gas station and you're done for the week. EVs make the most sense when you have your charger at home, or at least at work. Otherwise UX sucks balls. Imagine not being able to charge your phone at home and always be looking to charge it in public. That would suck, wouldn't it? >It's petrol car owners that need to start worrying. Do you see gas stations closing en-masse yet? I haven't. >delivery vans, etc. all going electric in a hurry They are not in any hurry. Only the national post where I live has some EV delivery vans for virtue signaling and green washing. All the other smaller delivery companies and contractors use diesel vans almost exclusively because they need to actually care about range, saving money and turning a profit.

tuna74 2y ago

I live in a condo (sort of) in northen europe and we put in chargers in all our garages last year.