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Hard to believe now, but for quite a long time he focused on visionary technology, was an exceptional business man, an inspiring builder and leader of his organ

Hard to believe now, but for quite a long time he focused on visionary technology, was an exceptional business man, an inspiring builder and leader of his organizations.He also demonstrated other unusual skills in ways people forget, never noticed, or sneer at ignorantly. Successfully navigating the national red tape for both Tesla and SpaceX, in industries with extremely entrenched regulatory captivating incumbents, demonstrated just one of many non-obvious skills. Today? He incessantly spews anti-inspirational anti-rational anti-social and anti-business diarrhea to an alarming and epic degree. He drives Twitter/X’s business logic like a drunk going the wrong way on a highway, seemingly intent on hitting every guardrail he can find. So far SpaceX and perhaps to a lesser degree Tesla are getting by on the deep talent he gathered in better times. He is an unusual person.

cess11 2y ago
No, most of the reporting from "his organizations" is about how they defend themselves against him and blow the whistle about security concerns, plus the union busting and wage theft and so on. Plus the story about how Thiel kicked him out to save PayPal. Both Tesla and SpaceX are military labs behind plausible deniability, dual-use aprons. Hence they're run to a larger extent by people who aren't him and he works like a neat distraction for outsiders. Much like Thiel he doesn't show any "deep talent". That's something other people are bringing to the organisations they're part of.
- Nevermark 2y ago
  This is hogwash. Dramatic exits after successful acquisitions are common. You have to earn “failures” like that. That created SpaceX’s seed capital. (You can’t have it both ways. If he had convinced the US to bankroll him, that would have been serious business acumen.) Minor success on hard problems, with a shoe string budget, and an attractive business plan (vertical integration, fast-failure iteration, reusability) got investment capital flowing. More successes, more capital. Result: They changed the economics of space launches & save money for all their customers, including NASA & the military. No resemblance to nepo operations or results. See Boeing, Lockheed, etc. $ billions of dollars burn with each SLS launch. Massive delays & cost plus overruns. For now.
  - cess11 2y ago
    Thiel put him aside before the IPO, which was before Ebay bought them. There's been a lot of reporting about how SpaceX is keeping Musk's influence at a minimum. If you go looking you'll also find video from interviews with Musk in that role where he isn't talking from a script and comes across as a clueless high schooler. Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills?
    - Nevermark 2y ago
      > Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I don’t like one-sided trolls who are insecure that some other people are exceptional? Is that really the kind of conversation we want to have? — More productively: I don’t have an axe to grind either way, other than giving credit where it is due, and vice versa. My original comment reflected both. He has done some truly incredible work. He earned his success. Lately, he is a mess with completely different priorities. I imagine many employees in all his companies are happier when he is not around these days. And would be happy if he stopped posting opinions, given the downstream impact to their brands.
      - cess11 2y ago
        Do I come across as insecure? What "success"? The stuff that other people have made happen that he takes credit for?
        Nevermark 2y ago
        > Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I responded to your pointless, inaccurate and rude conjecture with an equally pointless, rude, and what I assumed was an equally inaccurate conjecture to suggest that perhaps we keep our conversation substantive. If the sense in that still isn’t clear, you might check out the guidelines on this site for keeping discussion constructive. > What "success"? The stuff that other people have made happen that he takes credit for? I don’t know how “success” could be any more evident. But if you believe you see shortcuts that were taken, then perhaps take your insight and do something comparable? Good luck!

cess11 2y ago

No, most of the reporting from "his organizations" is about how they defend themselves against him and blow the whistle about security concerns, plus the union busting and wage theft and so on. Plus the story about how Thiel kicked him out to save PayPal. Both Tesla and SpaceX are military labs behind plausible deniability, dual-use aprons. Hence they're run to a larger extent by people who aren't him and he works like a neat distraction for outsiders. Much like Thiel he doesn't show any "deep talent". That's something other people are bringing to the organisations they're part of.

Nevermark 2y ago
This is hogwash. Dramatic exits after successful acquisitions are common. You have to earn “failures” like that. That created SpaceX’s seed capital. (You can’t have it both ways. If he had convinced the US to bankroll him, that would have been serious business acumen.) Minor success on hard problems, with a shoe string budget, and an attractive business plan (vertical integration, fast-failure iteration, reusability) got investment capital flowing. More successes, more capital. Result: They changed the economics of space launches & save money for all their customers, including NASA & the military. No resemblance to nepo operations or results. See Boeing, Lockheed, etc. $ billions of dollars burn with each SLS launch. Massive delays & cost plus overruns. For now.
- cess11 2y ago
  Thiel put him aside before the IPO, which was before Ebay bought them. There's been a lot of reporting about how SpaceX is keeping Musk's influence at a minimum. If you go looking you'll also find video from interviews with Musk in that role where he isn't talking from a script and comes across as a clueless high schooler. Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills?
  - Nevermark 2y ago
    > Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I don’t like one-sided trolls who are insecure that some other people are exceptional? Is that really the kind of conversation we want to have? — More productively: I don’t have an axe to grind either way, other than giving credit where it is due, and vice versa. My original comment reflected both. He has done some truly incredible work. He earned his success. Lately, he is a mess with completely different priorities. I imagine many employees in all his companies are happier when he is not around these days. And would be happy if he stopped posting opinions, given the downstream impact to their brands.
    - cess11 2y ago
      Do I come across as insecure? What "success"? The stuff that other people have made happen that he takes credit for?
      - Nevermark 2y ago
        > Why are you taking hits for him? Does he somehow pay your bills? I responded to your pointless, inaccurate and rude conjecture with an equally pointless, rude, and what I assumed was an equally inaccurate conjecture to suggest that perhaps we keep our conversation substantive. If the sense in that still isn’t clear, you might check out the guidelines on this site for keeping discussion constructive. > What "success"? The stuff that other people have made happen that he takes credit for? I don’t know how “success” could be any more evident. But if you believe you see shortcuts that were taken, then perhaps take your insight and do something comparable? Good luck!