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An honest question - why can’t volunteering be a job? From a free market principle, doesn’t giving your time for free for what is clearly of a lot value send t

An honest question - why can’t volunteering be a job? From a free market principle, doesn’t giving your time for free for what is clearly of a lot value send the wrong incentives to organizations who are paid (whether by tax payers or patients) to deliver the value you’re giving away

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Not usually. The main reason that these organizations need volunteers is, is because most folks don’t think they are worth supporting, financially. This is often because they serve segments of the population that represent a small demographic, or because the causes they champion don’t enjoy mainstream support. There are some organizations that abuse volunteers, but they are few and far between (but are treated as typical, when folks want to attack). Also, when you pay for work, you get work, but there’s no guarantee of “heart.” In many cases, the emotional investment is worth far more than the financial worth. I’ve been doing volunteer work for over 40 years. Much of it has been extremely valuable tech work, and much of that work has been treated in rather shabby fashion. When people get stuff for free, they often devalue it. This is common, in nonprofit work. It can certainly be maddening. I do it anyway. I tend to think of the final end-users of my work, as opposed to the middlemen/women (BTW: volunteering is a great way to meet potential romantic interests -I don’t care; I’m married).
- immibis 2y ago
  In a free market system, if nobody thinks something is worth supporting financially, then it isn't worth supporting financially, and doing it for free distorts the economy and reduces efficiency.
  - jhklvdblre 2y ago
    Is there a difference between "I think this cause is worth supporting with my money (which will be used to pay someone's salary)" and "I think this cause is worth supporting with my time"?
  - ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
    Well, I'll do it anyway. I get a lot from it, personally. It seems we have different ways of looking at the world.
  - vasco 2y ago
    Let's kill the old people then so we don't distort the market.
  - amake 2y ago
    Sounds like a shitty system.
  - Empact 2y ago
    You have a mistaken conception of the free market. The voluntary action we do in upholding our families and communities is foundational to the economy - voluntary action is the space in which economic liberty occurs. It doesn’t reduce efficiency because the volunteers are the judge of worth and their’s is the only opinion that matters. The cost of providing services can be quite low when the labor is volunteered, so the cost to benefit tilts heavily in the direction of net benefit, i.e. efficiency in producing positive outcomes at a particular cost.
  - throaway2501 2y ago
    [dead]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - triceratops 2y ago
    Volunteers clearly get value out of volunteering, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Everyone is free to define their own measure of value. That's one of the reasons it's called a "free" market. A market where money is the only measure of value is definitionally not a free market. > doing it for free distorts the economy It's very noble of you to do stuff for "the economy". Most just pursue selfish needs and desires like food, clothing, shelter, and wanting to make a difference in others' lives.
  - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    Well, a free market system is 'free'. You donate your money or your effort or do neither. The money part of transaction is not set in stone.
jborden13 2y ago
I run marketing for a non-profit that supports a number of community programs. One of which provides free in-school dental care for rural children, regardless of insurance or nationality. The grant funding ran out years ago and the non-profit has been funding thousands of dental treatments out of its reserves - which is obviously quite expensive. All of this is to say I was tasked with creating and running a fundraising campaign with a budget of $300 - to raise funds for a 6 figure annual expense. My budget is so small because all of the other budget went to child dental wellness. It's a multi-week campaign and if I brought on incremental labor costs with each volunteer - I would be in gross violation of minimum wage laws and sink the non-profit due to the minimal resources available.
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Thanks so much for your Service! That's a great service.
- jborden13 2y ago
  https://www.coloradogives.org/story/Tchn https://www.coloradogives.org/story/Tchn
pjerem 2y ago
Because free market is sometimes (in fact a lot of the times) bullshit. Free market doesn’t work when people have no personal interest on something and in itself promotes individualism. So free market doesn’t care about people who suffer so much they become a burden to the economy. And that’s for any suffering, not only pain : you can be of no interest for free markets if you are poor, sick, isolated, homeless, if your country is at war, under influence, constrained, abused or just unlucky … Free markets can fulfill most of the human needs by transforming money from and into goods and services but if there is something it’s not going to do, it’s to care. It’s an issue because humans naturally cares about things and other humans and that’s how our societies aren’t collapsing everyday. But the capitalist system, for all its proven goods, also inherently promotes individualism and demotes caring of the world and people around. Volunteers are doing the important hard work that free market and politics won’t do. All of this could probably be avoided in a perfect democracy but a perfect democracy will never happen and would anyway live in an imperfect world.
fifilura 2y ago
In Sweden, where the minimum salary is pretty high, and in general employment has many rules and laws around them, there would be a limit to the type of work that you can do as a "job". You can't just transform a volunteer to a person working for half the salary of the employed person next to him.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago

Not usually. The main reason that these organizations need volunteers is, is because most folks don’t think they are worth supporting, financially. This is often because they serve segments of the population that represent a small demographic, or because the causes they champion don’t enjoy mainstream support. There are some organizations that abuse volunteers, but they are few and far between (but are treated as typical, when folks want to attack). Also, when you pay for work, you get work, but there’s no guarantee of “heart.” In many cases, the emotional investment is worth far more than the financial worth. I’ve been doing volunteer work for over 40 years. Much of it has been extremely valuable tech work, and much of that work has been treated in rather shabby fashion. When people get stuff for free, they often devalue it. This is common, in nonprofit work. It can certainly be maddening. I do it anyway. I tend to think of the final end-users of my work, as opposed to the middlemen/women (BTW: volunteering is a great way to meet potential romantic interests -I don’t care; I’m married).

immibis 2y ago
In a free market system, if nobody thinks something is worth supporting financially, then it isn't worth supporting financially, and doing it for free distorts the economy and reduces efficiency.
- jhklvdblre 2y ago
  Is there a difference between "I think this cause is worth supporting with my money (which will be used to pay someone's salary)" and "I think this cause is worth supporting with my time"?
- ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
  Well, I'll do it anyway. I get a lot from it, personally. It seems we have different ways of looking at the world.
- vasco 2y ago
  Let's kill the old people then so we don't distort the market.
- amake 2y ago
  Sounds like a shitty system.
- Empact 2y ago
  You have a mistaken conception of the free market. The voluntary action we do in upholding our families and communities is foundational to the economy - voluntary action is the space in which economic liberty occurs. It doesn’t reduce efficiency because the volunteers are the judge of worth and their’s is the only opinion that matters. The cost of providing services can be quite low when the labor is volunteered, so the cost to benefit tilts heavily in the direction of net benefit, i.e. efficiency in producing positive outcomes at a particular cost.
- throaway2501 2y ago
  [dead]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- triceratops 2y ago
  Volunteers clearly get value out of volunteering, otherwise they wouldn't do it. Everyone is free to define their own measure of value. That's one of the reasons it's called a "free" market. A market where money is the only measure of value is definitionally not a free market. > doing it for free distorts the economy It's very noble of you to do stuff for "the economy". Most just pursue selfish needs and desires like food, clothing, shelter, and wanting to make a difference in others' lives.
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  Well, a free market system is 'free'. You donate your money or your effort or do neither. The money part of transaction is not set in stone.

jborden13 2y ago

I run marketing for a non-profit that supports a number of community programs. One of which provides free in-school dental care for rural children, regardless of insurance or nationality. The grant funding ran out years ago and the non-profit has been funding thousands of dental treatments out of its reserves - which is obviously quite expensive. All of this is to say I was tasked with creating and running a fundraising campaign with a budget of $300 - to raise funds for a 6 figure annual expense. My budget is so small because all of the other budget went to child dental wellness. It's a multi-week campaign and if I brought on incremental labor costs with each volunteer - I would be in gross violation of minimum wage laws and sink the non-profit due to the minimal resources available.

ChrisMarshallNY 2y ago
Thanks so much for your Service! That's a great service.
jborden13 2y ago
https://www.coloradogives.org/story/Tchn https://www.coloradogives.org/story/Tchn

pjerem 2y ago

Because free market is sometimes (in fact a lot of the times) bullshit. Free market doesn’t work when people have no personal interest on something and in itself promotes individualism. So free market doesn’t care about people who suffer so much they become a burden to the economy. And that’s for any suffering, not only pain : you can be of no interest for free markets if you are poor, sick, isolated, homeless, if your country is at war, under influence, constrained, abused or just unlucky … Free markets can fulfill most of the human needs by transforming money from and into goods and services but if there is something it’s not going to do, it’s to care. It’s an issue because humans naturally cares about things and other humans and that’s how our societies aren’t collapsing everyday. But the capitalist system, for all its proven goods, also inherently promotes individualism and demotes caring of the world and people around. Volunteers are doing the important hard work that free market and politics won’t do. All of this could probably be avoided in a perfect democracy but a perfect democracy will never happen and would anyway live in an imperfect world.

fifilura 2y ago

In Sweden, where the minimum salary is pretty high, and in general employment has many rules and laws around them, there would be a limit to the type of work that you can do as a "job". You can't just transform a volunteer to a person working for half the salary of the employed person next to him.