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Either they'll have children or they won't and the ones who do will replace the ones who don't. It's like I said, whatever people perceive to be a problem is no

Either they'll have children or they won't and the ones who do will replace the ones who don't. It's like I said, whatever people perceive to be a problem is not actually a problem because it corrects itself without any interventions.

amanaplanacanal 2y ago
It depends on what you consider the problem to be. I personally didn't think there is a problem, but if you define the problem to be "population decline until there are no people left", your solution doesn't work. Unless maybe you consider other mammals to be people too.
- benchmarkist 2y ago
  I haven't defined any problems or solutions but certain people do seem to have defined the problem like you have. What I said specifically was that whatever people perceive to be a problem with the global human population is self-correcting (from a biological perspective) because those who voluntarily choose to not procreate will be replaced by those who are more than happy to have as many children as possible. If someone has a different perspective on this then they are welcome to make their version of the problem explicit and concrete and explain what exactly they propose as a valid intervention for fixing it. I suspect and am almost certain they have not thought about the issue as rigorously as they think and are simply parroting popular talking points they've seen and heard on social media platforms about the impending collapse of civilization caused by declining birth rates.
  - card_zero 2y ago
    You don't recognize that people can think. You assert that the offspring behave like the parents. You imply that the offspring are defined by their genes. You have no concept of the cultural transmission of ideas. You imagine that looking at everything biologically is correct. Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.
    - benchmarkist 2y ago
      Not really sure if serious or not but good try anyway. For the record I thought your response was very funny.
      - card_zero 2y ago
        I didn't really mean it, I was channeling Zoidberg from episode 72 of Futurama ("your music's bad, and you should feel bad"). But I do get the impression that you have cloth ears.
        benchmarkist 2y ago
        On some days my cloth ears are more dry than on other days so the sounds are more or less muffled depending on ambient conditions.
notahacker 2y ago
The problem is usually reframed as factually accurate claims that the number of people in most countries is below the replacement rate, and thus the number of people over working age swells whilst the number of working age people is set to shrink. The implications of this may have been exaggerated of course. But it's quite clear that it is not being "self corrected" by the offspring of people who do choose to have more children than the replacement rate being genetically [or culturally] predisposed to breed like rabbits...
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  The elderly vastly outnumbering the working population is a symptom of sudden and drastic population count decline and is a different problem even if it is correlated. Biology and evolution by definition is determined by those who reproduce offspring, those who do not will be replaced by those who do. Put another way: Generation B and onwards are the offspring of Generation A who reproduced.
  - notahacker 2y ago
    I mean, sudden and drastic population declines are literally the subject of the thread. Or more specifically, that humans in many parts of the world are reproducing at below replacement rate. Reproduction below replacement rate means that those who do not reproduce offspring are not replaced by the offspring of those who do. Nobody is arguing that Generation B aren't the offspring of those who reproduced, they're arguing that this detail is essentially irrelevant to how many children Generation B will have and therefore birth rate decline need not be "self correcting" and empirically isn't in much of the world.
    - Dalewyn 2y ago
      I think you're misunderstanding what "replace" means. Given a long enough time span, everyone alive will be the children of those who reproduced. Generation B will be composed of Generation A reproducers. The world of tomorrow will be owned by those who reproduce today.
  - 2y ago

amanaplanacanal 2y ago

It depends on what you consider the problem to be. I personally didn't think there is a problem, but if you define the problem to be "population decline until there are no people left", your solution doesn't work. Unless maybe you consider other mammals to be people too.

benchmarkist 2y ago
I haven't defined any problems or solutions but certain people do seem to have defined the problem like you have. What I said specifically was that whatever people perceive to be a problem with the global human population is self-correcting (from a biological perspective) because those who voluntarily choose to not procreate will be replaced by those who are more than happy to have as many children as possible. If someone has a different perspective on this then they are welcome to make their version of the problem explicit and concrete and explain what exactly they propose as a valid intervention for fixing it. I suspect and am almost certain they have not thought about the issue as rigorously as they think and are simply parroting popular talking points they've seen and heard on social media platforms about the impending collapse of civilization caused by declining birth rates.
- card_zero 2y ago
  You don't recognize that people can think. You assert that the offspring behave like the parents. You imply that the offspring are defined by their genes. You have no concept of the cultural transmission of ideas. You imagine that looking at everything biologically is correct. Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.
  - benchmarkist 2y ago
    Not really sure if serious or not but good try anyway. For the record I thought your response was very funny.
    - card_zero 2y ago
      I didn't really mean it, I was channeling Zoidberg from episode 72 of Futurama ("your music's bad, and you should feel bad"). But I do get the impression that you have cloth ears.
      - benchmarkist 2y ago
        On some days my cloth ears are more dry than on other days so the sounds are more or less muffled depending on ambient conditions.

notahacker 2y ago

The problem is usually reframed as factually accurate claims that the number of people in most countries is below the replacement rate, and thus the number of people over working age swells whilst the number of working age people is set to shrink. The implications of this may have been exaggerated of course. But it's quite clear that it is not being "self corrected" by the offspring of people who do choose to have more children than the replacement rate being genetically [or culturally] predisposed to breed like rabbits...

Dalewyn 2y ago
The elderly vastly outnumbering the working population is a symptom of sudden and drastic population count decline and is a different problem even if it is correlated. Biology and evolution by definition is determined by those who reproduce offspring, those who do not will be replaced by those who do. Put another way: Generation B and onwards are the offspring of Generation A who reproduced.
- notahacker 2y ago
  I mean, sudden and drastic population declines are literally the subject of the thread. Or more specifically, that humans in many parts of the world are reproducing at below replacement rate. Reproduction below replacement rate means that those who do not reproduce offspring are not replaced by the offspring of those who do. Nobody is arguing that Generation B aren't the offspring of those who reproduced, they're arguing that this detail is essentially irrelevant to how many children Generation B will have and therefore birth rate decline need not be "self correcting" and empirically isn't in much of the world.
  - Dalewyn 2y ago
    I think you're misunderstanding what "replace" means. Given a long enough time span, everyone alive will be the children of those who reproduced. Generation B will be composed of Generation A reproducers. The world of tomorrow will be owned by those who reproduce today.
- 2y ago