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This maps to my own experience in the UK. Every time I search for a C++ job, I inevitably end up discussing my fondness of Rust but inability to use it at work.
by devnullbrain 2y ago
This maps to my own experience in the UK. Every time I search for a C++ job, I inevitably end up discussing my fondness of Rust but inability to use it at work. The interviewer will typically reply mentioning discussions of using it for greenfield projects - but I know it won't result in me writing anything of substance.
2 years ago, seeing a somewhat applicable Rust job-description made me 90% certain it was about cryptocurrency fintech. Now, a few defence roles are creeping in, presumably due to the US government distancing itself from unsafe languages. Neither are fields I really want to work in. And what a shame it would be if such a great language was relegated to being an Ada alternative.
I try to keep on top of Rust, - it's the most likely candidate to put me out of a job - but it will be a long time before there are no more legacy C++ codebases. Being the COBOL guy of the future doesn't sound too bad.
- causal 2y agoWhy would staying on top of Rust put you out of a job?
- Twirrim 2y agoThey're saying they stay up to date with Rust, because it's the most likely to do away with C++ (their job), making sure they have relevant skills for if that happens.
- quickslowdown 2y agoThe Rust language is what he's saying will put him out of a job, over tim as it replaces C (the language I'm guessing they work with professionally).
- AlotOfReading 2y agoNow, a few defence roles are creeping in, presumably due to the US government distancing itself from unsafe languages. I know a few contractor teams that have moved to Rust not because of any federal pressure, but simply because they're small and hierarchical enough that 1-2 people who understand the benefits are able to set the development language.
- eggy 2y agoThey've been using safe languages like Ada and SPARK2014 for decades, and those are hardly unsafe. In fact they are safer and more mature than Rust and easier to learn IMHO.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoTried hiring people for Ada jobs, or finding open source stuff to use in it? Ada has failed to find a market even in the safety-critical niches it should be dominating. Heck, AdaCore is putting out more Rust stuff these days than Ada.
- pjmlp 2y agoYet, 7 companies are still in business selling Ada compilers, in a world where most devs refuse to pay for tools while expecting to be paid themselves.
- AlotOfReading 2y agoAnd presumably they're all selling almost exclusively to the aerospace industry. There's like a dozen COBOL compiler vendors too. It's not indicative of the health of the language ecosystem.
- pjmlp 2y agoAda is used all over the place in high integrity computing, that is much more than aerospace. Well, COBOL just got ISO COBOL 2023 out of the door, and both Visual COBOL and NetCOBOL, still offer a much better development experience than many FOSS toolchains.
- eggy 2y agoTell that to the largest company in the world, Nvidia that adopted SPARK for their high-integrity, high-security firmware.
- 2y ago
- CaptainJack 2y agoBeing in the uk, we were fortunate enough to choose rust as a main language with my co-founder about two years ago. We chose it after trying it out for some toy projects, and with no real experience with it (but both of us having heavy experience of C++, C#, Python, Ruby, and having tested many others). We chose it because it felt "right", giving us c++ performance, productivity when writing, and a feeling of cleanliness from its type system I had not experienced since ... Ocaml. But what we did not expect was how great it was from a talent perspective. We started hiring at a time where lots of rust developers were being laid off crypto, and the caliber of candidates is just ... amazing. Rust devs enjoy working with the language, and you get a type of developer who likes producing good code, and is usually quite passionate about coding. So, I understand rust jobs are not easy to get by, but being on the other side of the table, it's a wonderful talent magnet for our team, allowing us to hire great developers.
- pdimitar 2y agoApologies for the off-topic but I am currently in a job search. I'd rate myself below the guys and girls you hired but I am very enthusiastic working with Rust. You hiring? Again, sorry. :( But I am not getting any networking opportunities lately and couldn't resist replying to your message.
- wizzwizz4 2y agoThere's a hiring thread: you might find that useful. https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring https://news.ycombinator.com/submitted?id=whoishiring The next one's coming out in a few days.
- pdimitar 2y agoAlready did, thank you, I am simply trying my luck at a direct connection. Sanctioned HR processes are a meat grinder.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoI skim it, but I typically only see maybe 2-3 roles in my domain. And these days, maybe 1 is in the US and the other 2-3 are in the EU. Such a rough market.
- sien 2y agoThis is also true where I am in Australia. There are very few Rust jobs. However, from the first two comments on the article : "We use Rust at AWS (in my org) for every new project that would have previously been written in c++. [–]rigmaroler 104 points 23 hours ago Microsoft is the same. All new services running on VM-hosting nodes (i.e. domains where C# is explicitly not allowed) have to use Rust now. It's a top-down mandate. There's also AI investment in converting C/C++ services to Rust, but I have a negative opinion on that investment" So there is clearly a substantial amount of Rust being written in some places.
- devnullbrain 2y agoThat's a kind of tier of employer that wouldn't even invite me to interview but you are right and I expect it will trickle down to my level in the long-run.
- menaerus 2y agoDon't beat yourself about it. My advice would be to get not too crazy about programming languages. Become proficient at one. Pick either C++ or Rust. Don't use HN as a source for making your next moves in career - it is very skewed. Rather use that energy to invest into building domain-specific knowledge - that will get you a lot further than being a programming language afficionado and a language lawyer. IMHO.
- sam0x17 2y agoWhere are these C++ jobs? I've only seen Rust jobs :D
- black_13 2y ago[dead]
- johnnyanmac 2y agoany role that requires performance. Games, embedded (though than might be more pure C), some backend dev work here and there, fintech/quant, many jobs that need to work with Linux in anyway.
- pdimitar 2y ago> Now, a few defence roles are creeping in, presumably due to the US government distancing itself from unsafe languages. Neither are fields I really want to work in. Well, I am interested. Got any names?
- JohnFen 2y ago> Being the COBOL guy of the future doesn't sound too bad. This is where I arrived for different reasons. It seems that Rust might become an important language, career-wise, so I learned it to the level of basic competency. In the course of doing that, I learned that I really hate Rust. Not on technical grounds, but I find the language itself unpleasant, and I dislike much of the tooling around the language (crates, etc.) Rust wouldn't be the first language I've learned and dislike, but this time, I decided to just take a pass. Even if Rust becomes the predominant language, there will always be work in other languages. I'll be content with that.
- pdimitar 2y agoI am not sure I can decipher from your comment what do you exactly find unpleasant in the language and the tooling?
- gigel82 2y agoNot OP but the syntax is off-puting for me, it's simply difficult to read. I can parse and read all C/C++/TypeScript/Java/C# code with ease, it all makes sense and reads like poetry. Rust's syntax is just ugly, I have a visceral unpleasant feeling sort-of like when I have to read Perl code or (to a lesser degree) Objective-C.
- ribadeo 2y agoYou don't like the turbofish?