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As someone who's already using the dedicated server for a ton of things, I have been really grateful. But now, I have a new question, are they going to do this

As someone who's already using the dedicated server for a ton of things, I have been really grateful. But now, I have a new question, are they going to do this to their dedicated servers as well?

dantillberg 2y ago
This change only affects VPS services in the US, and for what it's worth, Hetzner does not offer dedicated servers in the US.
consumer451 2y ago
I am very ignorant here, so my apologies, but... When someone runs a dedicated server these days, does this mean a one-off linux install? Or is this more likely to be a docker install so that it's portable?
- fabian2k 2y ago
  For Hetzner you rent actual physical servers. There is nothing virtualized there, it's real hardware without abstractions.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    Thanks, I guess what I meant to ask is that is it normal for people to virtualize their own dedicated server these days by default? Would this be a best practice to avoid hosting vendor lock-in?
    - Filligree 2y ago
      There's no lock-in possible. It's a bare metal Linux machine, you do whatever you want with it; you can replace it with the PC under you desk if you want. If you want to run k3s, k8s or docker, you can, but personally I find those too complicated. NixOS is much easier to deal with, and achieves the same result.
    - conradfr 2y ago
      Sure, I use CapRover on mine.
- ajb 2y ago
  Replying here as your other question is at max thread depth: A non virtualized Linux install isn't more locked in than a docker install, as for a bare metal server you are choosing your own OS. I have done the docker thing on a bare metal server, but that's because I wanted to run multiple services on it and isolate them operationally.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    > A non virtualized Linux install isn't more locked in than a docker install Again, sorry for my ignorance here, but if not virtualized, how does one move hosting providers otherwise? My experience is limited to either running all the bash commands in an install readme, or installing a docker image. So there must be something in-between, to recreate a linux install elsewhere? > Replying here as your other question is at max thread depth: btw, you can click on the time of the post, and reply there when there is no reply link in the main thread.
    - andai 2y ago
      Isn't a Docker image an OS image and a bunch of shell commands?
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      Talos Linux, Flatcar Container linux...
    - lupire 2y ago
      You can use a configuration manager like Puppet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_(software) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_(software)
    - ajb 2y ago
      >So there must be something in-between, to recreate a linux install elsewhere? There's a class of tools like chef, ansible, puppet. Or you can just package your services into debs and run a Debian repo to install them from, same as the base OS Possibly there's something closer to dockerfiles out there by now as well >btw, you can click on the time of the post, and reply there when there is no reply link in the main thread. Cool, thanks! Makes me puzzled about the point of concealing the reply links, I guess it just adds a bit of friction?
- princevegeta89 2y ago
  It's an actual entire machine given to you. I remember there were a few options for me from Ubuntu, Debian to Red Hat to choose from, but all of them would also have preconfigured system users and some level of administration done by the provider. But other than that, it's an actual bare metal machine and I installed Ubuntu on it and threw in a giant heap of services that have been running on it for more than a year now.
  - consumer451 2y ago
    If you could rewind the clock, would you have started setting it up any differently, like in a container? I am just curious what your options would be now if you wanted to migrate. Would you just copy your bash history to a local text file for reference, and then repeat the steps on a new server?
    - sneak 2y ago
      Generally even in containerized deployments, you run one container per service/process. You wouldn't run everything you’d run on one box in one container. I definitely recommend using docker compose or similar even in a one node deployment versus just installing and running things on the host linux system like it’s still 1998. Having a single directory to back up and a single file defining all of the services that can easily be redeployed is very convenient.
      - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
        The performance impact seems completely unjustified for most of the things people do with a personal machine however.
        consumer451 2y ago
        What is the performance impact? Going one page into Google results, I found this paper. Is there a better reference? > At light workload levels, the native host performs better than Docker. However, as the workload increases, both Docker and the native host show similar performance, with the difference getting smaller https://www.researchgate.net/publication/376557310_Comparative_Analysis_of_Apache_2_Performance_in_Docker_Containers_vs_Native_Environment https://www.researchgate.net/publication/376557310_Comparati...
- BrutalCoding 2y ago
  Yeah, it's a one-off install. In my case, I did Proxmox[1] for a while with VM's and LXC's, with some of my VM's and unprivileged LXC's running Docker (compose) too because it made the installation of said software easier. It's great, but I'm moving over to switch to Debian with Incus[2] instead of Proxmox. Just for fun mostly. [1] https://www.proxmox.com/en/ https://www.proxmox.com/en/ [2] https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/introduction/ https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/introduction/

As someone who's already using the dedicated server for a ton of things, I have been really grateful. But now, I have a new question, are they going to do this to their dedicated servers as well?

dantillberg 2y ago

This change only affects VPS services in the US, and for what it's worth, Hetzner does not offer dedicated servers in the US.

consumer451 2y ago

I am very ignorant here, so my apologies, but... When someone runs a dedicated server these days, does this mean a one-off linux install? Or is this more likely to be a docker install so that it's portable?

fabian2k 2y ago
For Hetzner you rent actual physical servers. There is nothing virtualized there, it's real hardware without abstractions.
- consumer451 2y ago
  Thanks, I guess what I meant to ask is that is it normal for people to virtualize their own dedicated server these days by default? Would this be a best practice to avoid hosting vendor lock-in?
  - Filligree 2y ago
    There's no lock-in possible. It's a bare metal Linux machine, you do whatever you want with it; you can replace it with the PC under you desk if you want. If you want to run k3s, k8s or docker, you can, but personally I find those too complicated. NixOS is much easier to deal with, and achieves the same result.
  - conradfr 2y ago
    Sure, I use CapRover on mine.
ajb 2y ago
Replying here as your other question is at max thread depth: A non virtualized Linux install isn't more locked in than a docker install, as for a bare metal server you are choosing your own OS. I have done the docker thing on a bare metal server, but that's because I wanted to run multiple services on it and isolate them operationally.
- consumer451 2y ago
  > A non virtualized Linux install isn't more locked in than a docker install Again, sorry for my ignorance here, but if not virtualized, how does one move hosting providers otherwise? My experience is limited to either running all the bash commands in an install readme, or installing a docker image. So there must be something in-between, to recreate a linux install elsewhere? > Replying here as your other question is at max thread depth: btw, you can click on the time of the post, and reply there when there is no reply link in the main thread.
  - andai 2y ago
    Isn't a Docker image an OS image and a bunch of shell commands?
  - thrw42A8N 2y ago
    Talos Linux, Flatcar Container linux...
  - lupire 2y ago
    You can use a configuration manager like Puppet. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_(software) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puppet_(software)
  - ajb 2y ago
    >So there must be something in-between, to recreate a linux install elsewhere? There's a class of tools like chef, ansible, puppet. Or you can just package your services into debs and run a Debian repo to install them from, same as the base OS Possibly there's something closer to dockerfiles out there by now as well >btw, you can click on the time of the post, and reply there when there is no reply link in the main thread. Cool, thanks! Makes me puzzled about the point of concealing the reply links, I guess it just adds a bit of friction?
princevegeta89 2y ago
It's an actual entire machine given to you. I remember there were a few options for me from Ubuntu, Debian to Red Hat to choose from, but all of them would also have preconfigured system users and some level of administration done by the provider. But other than that, it's an actual bare metal machine and I installed Ubuntu on it and threw in a giant heap of services that have been running on it for more than a year now.
- consumer451 2y ago
  If you could rewind the clock, would you have started setting it up any differently, like in a container? I am just curious what your options would be now if you wanted to migrate. Would you just copy your bash history to a local text file for reference, and then repeat the steps on a new server?
  - sneak 2y ago
    Generally even in containerized deployments, you run one container per service/process. You wouldn't run everything you’d run on one box in one container. I definitely recommend using docker compose or similar even in a one node deployment versus just installing and running things on the host linux system like it’s still 1998. Having a single directory to back up and a single file defining all of the services that can easily be redeployed is very convenient.
    - RandomThoughts3 2y ago
      The performance impact seems completely unjustified for most of the things people do with a personal machine however.
      - consumer451 2y ago
        What is the performance impact? Going one page into Google results, I found this paper. Is there a better reference? > At light workload levels, the native host performs better than Docker. However, as the workload increases, both Docker and the native host show similar performance, with the difference getting smaller https://www.researchgate.net/publication/376557310_Comparative_Analysis_of_Apache_2_Performance_in_Docker_Containers_vs_Native_Environment https://www.researchgate.net/publication/376557310_Comparati...
BrutalCoding 2y ago
Yeah, it's a one-off install. In my case, I did Proxmox[1] for a while with VM's and LXC's, with some of my VM's and unprivileged LXC's running Docker (compose) too because it made the installation of said software easier. It's great, but I'm moving over to switch to Debian with Incus[2] instead of Proxmox. Just for fun mostly. [1] https://www.proxmox.com/en/ https://www.proxmox.com/en/ [2] https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/introduction/ https://linuxcontainers.org/incus/introduction/