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It's a tautology. Replicators which do not replicate do not persist in the environment and so are selected out of the pool of replicators. So whatever genes per

It's a tautology. Replicators which do not replicate do not persist in the environment and so are selected out of the pool of replicators. So whatever genes persist in the environment are tautologically the ones that managed to replicate and persist. The people who do not have children are selecting themselves out of the pool of genes that make copies so will be replaced with ones that do make copies. If you're talking about environmental pollution and declining fertility because of it then that's something else but even then, those who manage to survive and persist in a polluted environment will be the ones who pass on copies of their genes.

notahacker 2y ago
> It's a tautology. Replicators which do not replicate do not persist in the environment and so are selected out of the pool of replicators. So whatever genes persist in the environment are tautologically the ones that managed to replicate and persist. The people who do not have children are selecting themselves out of the pool of genes that make copies so will be replaced with ones that do make copies That's.... not how humans work. If people choose to have less children, which has very little to do with their genetics, there are fewer children to replicate, not "replacement" with children who are genetically determined to be fecund.
- benchmarkist 2y ago
  Humans are animals and animals which do not replicate are selected out of the gene pool. There is nothing to argue here.
  - notahacker 2y ago
    Nobody is taking issue with the fact that humans that do not replicate do not pass on their genes They are taking issue with the ludicrous assertion that falling birth rates are "self correcting" because the offspring of people who do replicate are somehow genetically predisposed to have more children to "replace" them.
    - benchmarkist 2y ago
      Either they'll have children or they won't and the ones who do will replace the ones who don't. It's like I said, whatever people perceive to be a problem is not actually a problem because it corrects itself without any interventions.
      - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        It depends on what you consider the problem to be. I personally didn't think there is a problem, but if you define the problem to be "population decline until there are no people left", your solution doesn't work. Unless maybe you consider other mammals to be people too.
        benchmarkist 2y ago
        I haven't defined any problems or solutions but certain people do seem to have defined the problem like you have. What I said specifically was that whatever people perceive to be a problem with the global human population is self-correcting (from a biological perspective) because those who voluntarily choose to not procreate will be replaced by those who are more than happy to have as many children as possible. If someone has a different perspective on this then they are welcome to make their version of the problem explicit and concrete and explain what exactly they propose as a valid intervention for fixing it. I suspect and am almost certain they have not thought about the issue as rigorously as they think and are simply parroting popular talking points they've seen and heard on social media platforms about the impending collapse of civilization caused by declining birth rates.
        card_zero 2y ago
        You don't recognize that people can think. You assert that the offspring behave like the parents. You imply that the offspring are defined by their genes. You have no concept of the cultural transmission of ideas. You imagine that looking at everything biologically is correct. Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.
__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
The pool of replicators can prune itself in many ways (indeed, it must), but that doesn't mean that those prunings are having any effect on the pool of genes. The relative frequency of fertility-relevant alleles is just as likely to remain stable. It's called Hardy Weinberg equilibrium and it's the default state for large populations that are not experiencing predation or expanding into new niches.
- benchmarkist 2y ago
  That's good to know.

notahacker 2y ago

> It's a tautology. Replicators which do not replicate do not persist in the environment and so are selected out of the pool of replicators. So whatever genes persist in the environment are tautologically the ones that managed to replicate and persist. The people who do not have children are selecting themselves out of the pool of genes that make copies so will be replaced with ones that do make copies That's.... not how humans work. If people choose to have less children, which has very little to do with their genetics, there are fewer children to replicate, not "replacement" with children who are genetically determined to be fecund.

benchmarkist 2y ago
Humans are animals and animals which do not replicate are selected out of the gene pool. There is nothing to argue here.
- notahacker 2y ago
  Nobody is taking issue with the fact that humans that do not replicate do not pass on their genes They are taking issue with the ludicrous assertion that falling birth rates are "self correcting" because the offspring of people who do replicate are somehow genetically predisposed to have more children to "replace" them.
  - benchmarkist 2y ago
    Either they'll have children or they won't and the ones who do will replace the ones who don't. It's like I said, whatever people perceive to be a problem is not actually a problem because it corrects itself without any interventions.
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      It depends on what you consider the problem to be. I personally didn't think there is a problem, but if you define the problem to be "population decline until there are no people left", your solution doesn't work. Unless maybe you consider other mammals to be people too.
      - benchmarkist 2y ago
        I haven't defined any problems or solutions but certain people do seem to have defined the problem like you have. What I said specifically was that whatever people perceive to be a problem with the global human population is self-correcting (from a biological perspective) because those who voluntarily choose to not procreate will be replaced by those who are more than happy to have as many children as possible. If someone has a different perspective on this then they are welcome to make their version of the problem explicit and concrete and explain what exactly they propose as a valid intervention for fixing it. I suspect and am almost certain they have not thought about the issue as rigorously as they think and are simply parroting popular talking points they've seen and heard on social media platforms about the impending collapse of civilization caused by declining birth rates.
        card_zero 2y ago
        You don't recognize that people can think. You assert that the offspring behave like the parents. You imply that the offspring are defined by their genes. You have no concept of the cultural transmission of ideas. You imagine that looking at everything biologically is correct. Your reasoning is bad, and you should feel bad.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago

The pool of replicators can prune itself in many ways (indeed, it must), but that doesn't mean that those prunings are having any effect on the pool of genes. The relative frequency of fertility-relevant alleles is just as likely to remain stable. It's called Hardy Weinberg equilibrium and it's the default state for large populations that are not experiencing predation or expanding into new niches.

benchmarkist 2y ago
That's good to know.