5 ms·

The End of Race Politics by Coleman Hughes. Pretty good book. I used to be a bleeding heart liberal with pro social justice (read: pro affirmative action) senti

The End of Race Politics by Coleman Hughes. Pretty good book. I used to be a bleeding heart liberal with pro social justice (read: pro affirmative action) sentiments, but he makes a compelling case against it. Also, it's very well written and fun to read

dantheman 2y ago
You might like: Discrimination and Disparities (2019) by Thomas Sowell
aaomidi 2y ago
The author of this book is against trans people being able to exist in this world. No thanks tbh. This isn’t identity politics. It’s just live and let live.
- WorkerBee28474 2y ago
  I think you're being disingenuous. I hadn't heard of that author before, so I went looking for writings that what you said. What I've found so far seems much more nuanced.
- dispin 2y ago
  No he isn't, here's a recent tweet of his that explains his position: "This also highlights the huge difference between the "LGB" and the "T''. The gay rights movement just asked society to leave them alone and let them get married. No impositions on my life. The trans movement demands that I adopt their new dialect (or I'm a bigot) and allow males to play in girls sports (or I'm a bigot). Big impositions." https://x.com/coldxman/status/1855303418975539394 https://x.com/coldxman/status/1855303418975539394
  - aaomidi 2y ago
    This is extremely similar what anti LGB people were also saying in how they were contrasting it to the civil rights movement. Also similar to what the anti-civil rights movement were saying when contrasting it to the end of slavery. Here, let me show it: "This also highlights the huge difference between the "Abolitionist Movement" and "Civil Rights". The abolitionist movement just asked society to leave them alone. No impositions on my life. The "civil Rights" movement demands that I accept they can share spaces with me (or I'm a bigot) and allow blacks to have access to the same systems in society (or I'm a bigot)." The only thing that has changed between these is that once these movements get set in stone, and legislation catches up - reactionary people such as Coleman stop attacking and othering it. This is why history is important. You get to see these patterns and realize its just the same shit happening all over again.
    - dispin 2y ago
      Please could you explain in more detail why you think this is analogous? I'm not seeing it. All you've done is slot some different words into his tweet and asserted that the meaning is similar. How, exactly? Also, your original claim was that Hughes is "against trans people being able to exist in this world" which you haven't provided any proof of. That tweet I quoted shows his actual expressed views, which refutes this.
      - aaomidi 2y ago
        Dictating to trans people about _how they get to live_ is the process of saying they can't co-exist in this world. It is the insinuation that they are _separate but equal_. We've been through this ride before. We're going through this ride again. Bigots, like that author, will lose and history will not look kindly upon them. However, for now, they get to act as an "enlightened rationalist", and sell books to people so people can justify their discomfort against trans folks. These enlightened rationalists aren't new. Again, I'm saying that what history provides us is seeing the patterns of behavior and speech. -- Let me more specifically target that tweet you've sent. Trans people make up such a small number of people, and an even smaller percentage of those would be interested in professional sports. Spending this much time having a moral freakout over this, when there's practically no "unfairness" happening in any mainstream sports is telling. This moral outrage has now led to invasive "tests" women have to go through before they participate in multiple sports at an international level. This outrage has caused a proliferation of false claims lodged against women who just, simply do well in sports and don't fall within the very subjectively defined "gender identity". For example, what Imane Khelif went through is a damned outrage. Has this author taken responsibility of what their rhetoric might mean to so called "real women" that he's claiming to be so supportive of? -- Now as for the language. As society shifts, and attitudes towards culture changes, our language also changes. It wasn't that far ago where words like the n-word were very common place in American culture. Now, if you're using that you will be considered a bigot. If I'm to take this author at face value, that's somehow supposedly a bad thing? This is similar to actively, and maliciously, misgendering someone. It's just not reached that level of understanding in society yet. Language is a living and breathing thing. The meanings of words change over time. How acceptable a phrase is changes over time. Folks crying about this are, at best just scared of change, at worst trying to monetize other folks' fear of change. I believe this author falls into the latter here. -- It's not just his tweets, he's set his career around this issue (https://youtu.be/WDFXPlv-R_s https://youtu.be/WDFXPlv-R_s). For someone who wants to be less _social justice_, he sure spends a lot of time talking about issues that ultimately are not relevant for 99% of the population, and is just part of the culture war himself.
  - FireBeyond 2y ago
    > The trans movement demands that I adopt their new dialect (or I'm a bigot) I'm sure he similarly complained when women asked to be called Ms, not just Miss or Mrs, too.
    - dispin 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - FireBeyond 2y ago
        No, it's not. "Ms" was absolutely a new dialect, and was similarly scorned by many as it gained popularity, and those who chose to use it where often derided as lesbian, feminist, or otherwise.
        dispin 2y ago
        Right, so it's not analogous to women wanting to be called Mr, which is an already-existing word used to refer to men.
        aaomidi 2y ago
        Then, simply, don't use Mr with them. You're going to be called bigoted because that's simply where culture is heading. You either own up to that judgement others have of you, or you realize you live in a society and certain behaviors are _not okay_. You have the freedom to be _subjectively_ a bigot.
        dispin 2y ago
        Culture seems to be heading away from this, not towards. At least according to polling of public opinion.
        aaomidi 2y ago
        Clearly not given the number of green usernames on this thread.
  - slater 2y ago
    Seems every day, HN gets a new green account that just so happens to be TERF or TERF-adjacent. I doubt you just chanced upon HN and made a new account, so why not just post with your regular account?
- y33t 2y ago
  Sounds more like he disagreed with trans ideology and it's literally killing all of them again.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
GaryNumanVevo 2y ago
It's funny you mention this because in Europe every bleeding heart liberal claims to be color (race) blind.

dantheman 2y ago

You might like: Discrimination and Disparities (2019) by Thomas Sowell

aaomidi 2y ago

The author of this book is against trans people being able to exist in this world. No thanks tbh. This isn’t identity politics. It’s just live and let live.

WorkerBee28474 2y ago
I think you're being disingenuous. I hadn't heard of that author before, so I went looking for writings that what you said. What I've found so far seems much more nuanced.
dispin 2y ago
No he isn't, here's a recent tweet of his that explains his position: "This also highlights the huge difference between the "LGB" and the "T''. The gay rights movement just asked society to leave them alone and let them get married. No impositions on my life. The trans movement demands that I adopt their new dialect (or I'm a bigot) and allow males to play in girls sports (or I'm a bigot). Big impositions." https://x.com/coldxman/status/1855303418975539394 https://x.com/coldxman/status/1855303418975539394
- aaomidi 2y ago
  This is extremely similar what anti LGB people were also saying in how they were contrasting it to the civil rights movement. Also similar to what the anti-civil rights movement were saying when contrasting it to the end of slavery. Here, let me show it: "This also highlights the huge difference between the "Abolitionist Movement" and "Civil Rights". The abolitionist movement just asked society to leave them alone. No impositions on my life. The "civil Rights" movement demands that I accept they can share spaces with me (or I'm a bigot) and allow blacks to have access to the same systems in society (or I'm a bigot)." The only thing that has changed between these is that once these movements get set in stone, and legislation catches up - reactionary people such as Coleman stop attacking and othering it. This is why history is important. You get to see these patterns and realize its just the same shit happening all over again.
  - dispin 2y ago
    Please could you explain in more detail why you think this is analogous? I'm not seeing it. All you've done is slot some different words into his tweet and asserted that the meaning is similar. How, exactly? Also, your original claim was that Hughes is "against trans people being able to exist in this world" which you haven't provided any proof of. That tweet I quoted shows his actual expressed views, which refutes this.
    - aaomidi 2y ago
      Dictating to trans people about _how they get to live_ is the process of saying they can't co-exist in this world. It is the insinuation that they are _separate but equal_. We've been through this ride before. We're going through this ride again. Bigots, like that author, will lose and history will not look kindly upon them. However, for now, they get to act as an "enlightened rationalist", and sell books to people so people can justify their discomfort against trans folks. These enlightened rationalists aren't new. Again, I'm saying that what history provides us is seeing the patterns of behavior and speech. -- Let me more specifically target that tweet you've sent. Trans people make up such a small number of people, and an even smaller percentage of those would be interested in professional sports. Spending this much time having a moral freakout over this, when there's practically no "unfairness" happening in any mainstream sports is telling. This moral outrage has now led to invasive "tests" women have to go through before they participate in multiple sports at an international level. This outrage has caused a proliferation of false claims lodged against women who just, simply do well in sports and don't fall within the very subjectively defined "gender identity". For example, what Imane Khelif went through is a damned outrage. Has this author taken responsibility of what their rhetoric might mean to so called "real women" that he's claiming to be so supportive of? -- Now as for the language. As society shifts, and attitudes towards culture changes, our language also changes. It wasn't that far ago where words like the n-word were very common place in American culture. Now, if you're using that you will be considered a bigot. If I'm to take this author at face value, that's somehow supposedly a bad thing? This is similar to actively, and maliciously, misgendering someone. It's just not reached that level of understanding in society yet. Language is a living and breathing thing. The meanings of words change over time. How acceptable a phrase is changes over time. Folks crying about this are, at best just scared of change, at worst trying to monetize other folks' fear of change. I believe this author falls into the latter here. -- It's not just his tweets, he's set his career around this issue (https://youtu.be/WDFXPlv-R_s https://youtu.be/WDFXPlv-R_s). For someone who wants to be less _social justice_, he sure spends a lot of time talking about issues that ultimately are not relevant for 99% of the population, and is just part of the culture war himself.
- FireBeyond 2y ago
  > The trans movement demands that I adopt their new dialect (or I'm a bigot) I'm sure he similarly complained when women asked to be called Ms, not just Miss or Mrs, too.
  - dispin 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - FireBeyond 2y ago
      No, it's not. "Ms" was absolutely a new dialect, and was similarly scorned by many as it gained popularity, and those who chose to use it where often derided as lesbian, feminist, or otherwise.
      - dispin 2y ago
        Right, so it's not analogous to women wanting to be called Mr, which is an already-existing word used to refer to men.
        aaomidi 2y ago
        Then, simply, don't use Mr with them. You're going to be called bigoted because that's simply where culture is heading. You either own up to that judgement others have of you, or you realize you live in a society and certain behaviors are _not okay_. You have the freedom to be _subjectively_ a bigot.
        dispin 2y ago
        Culture seems to be heading away from this, not towards. At least according to polling of public opinion.
        aaomidi 2y ago
        Clearly not given the number of green usernames on this thread.
- slater 2y ago
  Seems every day, HN gets a new green account that just so happens to be TERF or TERF-adjacent. I doubt you just chanced upon HN and made a new account, so why not just post with your regular account?
y33t 2y ago
Sounds more like he disagreed with trans ideology and it's literally killing all of them again.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

GaryNumanVevo 2y ago

It's funny you mention this because in Europe every bleeding heart liberal claims to be color (race) blind.