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You know you’ve gone off the deep end when you call Musk an “entrepreneur” in quotes instead of what he is - a regular, if excellent, entrepreneur. Having a le

You know you’ve gone off the deep end when you call Musk an “entrepreneur” in quotes instead of what he is - a regular, if excellent, entrepreneur. Having a leg up due to coming from a well-off background invalidates nothing. These top entrepreneurs and politicians typically grew up upper-middle class or as members of the minor rich; they rise to positions of prominence from there. That’s fundamentally different from inheriting power even if you’re a dunce as kings once did.

cess11 2y ago
No, he's not, he's a douche born into criminal wealth that organisations he ends up in needs to protect themselves from. Today he's also a fascist grifter who's entered into politics. For some reason usians don't revolt when their political system elects rapists, genocidaires and people on the far right, so I'm hoping it'll turn into something like a kingdom that they find it in themselves to overturn.
- FredPret 2y ago
  > Douche No accounting for taste > born into ... wealth It's a very minor thing in the big picture to be born into a 3rd world country like South Africa's top 1%. > criminal wealth His dad likely had some dodgy dealings, but there's every indication that he made the bulk of his money legally. Anyway, how does that reflect on Musk? Did we go back to "sins of the fathers"? > organisations he ends up in needs to protect themselves from. Ah yes, it's pure coincidence that so many of these organizations go on to absolutely kick ass. Let's check in on the EV situation at, say, GM or BMW in an alternate universe without Tesla. Or on the progress at ULA or Blue Origin. > fascist I don't think you understand what that word means. A key part of fascism is unlimited government control - the exact opposite of what he wants. > grifter He sells stuff? I guess that's bad in your eyes? > who's entered into politics How very dare he!? > rapists, genocidaires and people on the far right, Nice linking those three things together.
  - cess11 2y ago
    Apartheid was a crime. SA occupying and running mining operations in other countries was criminal. Profiting from it means you're accumulating criminal wealth. Mistaking first-mover advantage and access to extreme amounts of funding for "kick ass" is quite weird. No, that's not a characteristic of fascism. He's impressed by and promotes nazis, maintains his wealth through corporativism, and so on. No, it's that he makes wild promises, takes money and then don't deliver on them that makes him a grifter.
    - FredPret 2y ago
      Just going to drill into a couple of aspects of your rant. First, fascism is a totalitarian ideology. You could have googled it yourself instead of parroting what The View tells you. It demands 100% subordination of individual interests in service of the state. Here's a quote from Mussolini: "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist" [0] From his support of Trump and DOGE, we can conclude that he's the opposite of a fascist and wants to reduce the state. He's much more Millei than Mussolini. This is so elementary I'm a little confused as to why I have to spell it out. Here's some more homework for you: [1]. Words like Nazi and Fascist and Communist have meanings. If we want to have a civilized society, we must first respect the meanings of words so that we can have a conversation. Second: name a Nazi that Musk likes. Before you say Trump, here's Trump's Fine People speech. Watch the whole thing, then tell me he's a Nazi. Then also keep in mind the massive "Trump calls Nazis Fine People" hoax the media has been banging on about ever since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKbFA7HW-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKbFA7HW-U Here's one of him disavowing the KKK many times over a long period: https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/897112536574828544 https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/897112536574828544 Third, Musk is known for making wild promises, many of which are as yet undone. Nobody would care who he is if that was all there is to him. But some of his wild promises are real and part of everyday life. Fourth, if you think he wins due to extreme funding, go read the stories of Zip2, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX. All of the above teetered on the brink of nonexistence due to being bootstrapped by Musk who was then strapped for cash. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
- Nevermark 2y ago
  Hard to believe now, but for quite a long time he focused on visionary technology, was an exceptional business man, an inspiring builder and leader of his organizations.He also demonstrated other unusual skills in ways people forget, never noticed, or sneer at ignorantly. Successfully navigating the national red tape for both Tesla and SpaceX, in industries with extremely entrenched regulatory captivating incumbents, demonstrated just one of many non-obvious skills. Today? He incessantly spews anti-inspirational anti-rational anti-social and anti-business diarrhea to an alarming and epic degree. He drives Twitter/X’s business logic like a drunk going the wrong way on a highway, seemingly intent on hitting every guardrail he can find. So far SpaceX and perhaps to a lesser degree Tesla are getting by on the deep talent he gathered in better times. He is an unusual person.
  - cess11 2y ago
    No, most of the reporting from "his organizations" is about how they defend themselves against him and blow the whistle about security concerns, plus the union busting and wage theft and so on. Plus the story about how Thiel kicked him out to save PayPal. Both Tesla and SpaceX are military labs behind plausible deniability, dual-use aprons. Hence they're run to a larger extent by people who aren't him and he works like a neat distraction for outsiders. Much like Thiel he doesn't show any "deep talent". That's something other people are bringing to the organisations they're part of.
    - Nevermark 2y ago
      This is hogwash. Dramatic exits after successful acquisitions are common. You have to earn “failures” like that. That created SpaceX’s seed capital. (You can’t have it both ways. If he had convinced the US to bankroll him, that would have been serious business acumen.) Minor success on hard problems, with a shoe string budget, and an attractive business plan (vertical integration, fast-failure iteration, reusability) got investment capital flowing. More successes, more capital. Result: They changed the economics of space launches & save money for all their customers, including NASA & the military. No resemblance to nepo operations or results. See Boeing, Lockheed, etc. $ billions of dollars burn with each SLS launch. Massive delays & cost plus overruns. For now.

cess11 2y ago

No, he's not, he's a douche born into criminal wealth that organisations he ends up in needs to protect themselves from. Today he's also a fascist grifter who's entered into politics. For some reason usians don't revolt when their political system elects rapists, genocidaires and people on the far right, so I'm hoping it'll turn into something like a kingdom that they find it in themselves to overturn.

FredPret 2y ago
> Douche No accounting for taste > born into ... wealth It's a very minor thing in the big picture to be born into a 3rd world country like South Africa's top 1%. > criminal wealth His dad likely had some dodgy dealings, but there's every indication that he made the bulk of his money legally. Anyway, how does that reflect on Musk? Did we go back to "sins of the fathers"? > organisations he ends up in needs to protect themselves from. Ah yes, it's pure coincidence that so many of these organizations go on to absolutely kick ass. Let's check in on the EV situation at, say, GM or BMW in an alternate universe without Tesla. Or on the progress at ULA or Blue Origin. > fascist I don't think you understand what that word means. A key part of fascism is unlimited government control - the exact opposite of what he wants. > grifter He sells stuff? I guess that's bad in your eyes? > who's entered into politics How very dare he!? > rapists, genocidaires and people on the far right, Nice linking those three things together.
- cess11 2y ago
  Apartheid was a crime. SA occupying and running mining operations in other countries was criminal. Profiting from it means you're accumulating criminal wealth. Mistaking first-mover advantage and access to extreme amounts of funding for "kick ass" is quite weird. No, that's not a characteristic of fascism. He's impressed by and promotes nazis, maintains his wealth through corporativism, and so on. No, it's that he makes wild promises, takes money and then don't deliver on them that makes him a grifter.
  - FredPret 2y ago
    Just going to drill into a couple of aspects of your rant. First, fascism is a totalitarian ideology. You could have googled it yourself instead of parroting what The View tells you. It demands 100% subordination of individual interests in service of the state. Here's a quote from Mussolini: "The Fascist conception of the State is all-embracing; outside of it no human or spiritual values can exist" [0] From his support of Trump and DOGE, we can conclude that he's the opposite of a fascist and wants to reduce the state. He's much more Millei than Mussolini. This is so elementary I'm a little confused as to why I have to spell it out. Here's some more homework for you: [1]. Words like Nazi and Fascist and Communist have meanings. If we want to have a civilized society, we must first respect the meanings of words so that we can have a conversation. Second: name a Nazi that Musk likes. Before you say Trump, here's Trump's Fine People speech. Watch the whole thing, then tell me he's a Nazi. Then also keep in mind the massive "Trump calls Nazis Fine People" hoax the media has been banging on about ever since: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKbFA7HW-U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QGKbFA7HW-U Here's one of him disavowing the KKK many times over a long period: https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/897112536574828544 https://x.com/TimRunsHisMouth/status/897112536574828544 Third, Musk is known for making wild promises, many of which are as yet undone. Nobody would care who he is if that was all there is to him. But some of his wild promises are real and part of everyday life. Fourth, if you think he wins due to extreme funding, go read the stories of Zip2, Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX. All of the above teetered on the brink of nonexistence due to being bootstrapped by Musk who was then strapped for cash. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_fascism [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism
Nevermark 2y ago
Hard to believe now, but for quite a long time he focused on visionary technology, was an exceptional business man, an inspiring builder and leader of his organizations.He also demonstrated other unusual skills in ways people forget, never noticed, or sneer at ignorantly. Successfully navigating the national red tape for both Tesla and SpaceX, in industries with extremely entrenched regulatory captivating incumbents, demonstrated just one of many non-obvious skills. Today? He incessantly spews anti-inspirational anti-rational anti-social and anti-business diarrhea to an alarming and epic degree. He drives Twitter/X’s business logic like a drunk going the wrong way on a highway, seemingly intent on hitting every guardrail he can find. So far SpaceX and perhaps to a lesser degree Tesla are getting by on the deep talent he gathered in better times. He is an unusual person.
- cess11 2y ago
  No, most of the reporting from "his organizations" is about how they defend themselves against him and blow the whistle about security concerns, plus the union busting and wage theft and so on. Plus the story about how Thiel kicked him out to save PayPal. Both Tesla and SpaceX are military labs behind plausible deniability, dual-use aprons. Hence they're run to a larger extent by people who aren't him and he works like a neat distraction for outsiders. Much like Thiel he doesn't show any "deep talent". That's something other people are bringing to the organisations they're part of.
  - Nevermark 2y ago
    This is hogwash. Dramatic exits after successful acquisitions are common. You have to earn “failures” like that. That created SpaceX’s seed capital. (You can’t have it both ways. If he had convinced the US to bankroll him, that would have been serious business acumen.) Minor success on hard problems, with a shoe string budget, and an attractive business plan (vertical integration, fast-failure iteration, reusability) got investment capital flowing. More successes, more capital. Result: They changed the economics of space launches & save money for all their customers, including NASA & the military. No resemblance to nepo operations or results. See Boeing, Lockheed, etc. $ billions of dollars burn with each SLS launch. Massive delays & cost plus overruns. For now.