3 ms·

when can we start placing bets on time to enshitified? it all ends the same. not worth signing up for.

paulgb 2y ago
Bluesky reminds me of Twitter around ~2008, and Twitter only really got enshittified to the point that I barely use it this year. So I'm optimistic that we'll get a good decade in at least.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  And we can takeaway our data. Everyone at Bluesky seems quite aligned on building systems with user sovereignty: > one of bluesky’s mottos is “the company is a future adversary,” so we have to design this service in a way that preserves user choice & freedom > users should own their data, identity, and relationships on the social internet, and devs should never get locked out of the ecosystems that they build https://bsky.app/profile/emilyliu.me/post/3jzkm4kezos2d https://bsky.app/profile/emilyliu.me/post/3jzkm4kezos2d For all the shrill man-child cries of 'censorship!', there's protocols underlying already for you to host yourself! People do! Heavens spare us from these X-grade losers.
madeofpalk 2y ago
The hope is being open and decentralised are counteracting forces to keep bluesky in check if they attempt to pull the rug. We're yet to see how this turns out in practice. I do fear that the ATProto model means that Bluesky is still a pretty central component in the ecosystem. Mastodon, in comparison, seems to be more resiliant to one 'instance' screwing things up. If Bluesky shut down all their servers tomorrow with no notice, what will happen to the network? If Mastodon shut down their servers (mastodon.social), users on that instance would be screwed, but me and many of the people I follow aren't on there so we would be fine.
webdoodle 2y ago
From some of the comments here, it sounds like BlueSky started with healthy dose of enshitification: censorship and suspensions.
- Spivak 2y ago
  That's honestly the nice thing about BlueSky, you can't ban anyone from the network entirely and filtering / moderation tools are put in the hands of users to do with as they please. If you get no engagement because you're on everyone's blocklist well that can't be on anyone except you since every user opts in to them.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    While I prefer Mastodon to Bluesky, it’s for the same reason. Anyone can spin up a Mastodon server. Anyone else is free to say, nah, I don’t want to talk to them. That doesn’t prevent that server from existing and peering with like-minded instances.
- jauntywundrkind 2y ago
  There's a bunch of right wing trolls who filmed themselves signing up & posting really shitty mean things. These are not well intended people; this is boundary pushing. You either lose by becoming a Nazi bar, or if you listen to them you lose by having their snivelling crocodile tears to deal with forever. These folks can go run their own PDS! But generally I think nothing of value was lost, that the network has rightly refused to let itself be degraded.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Also, I suspect there was something else going on there, because there are lots of bigots on Bluesky. The “Very British Bigotry” blocklist (for fancy modern/Rowling—style transphobes), say, has literally thousands of people, completely unbanned, on it; Bluesky is really fairly small-l liberal about post content. One thing that they’re somewhat strict on is profile content, and I would speculate that those performatively getting banned are doing so on the strength of putting shit in their profile.
    - hooverd 2y ago
      People can have abhorrent opinions and be civil about it. They typically, aren't.
kmbfjr 2y ago
Your cynicism is well founded, but until that happens, enjoy the platform.
- likeabatterycar 2y ago
  Is the plan to make a new app every 5-10 years when the old one crashes and burns for the same reasons? Surely the VC money will run out at some point.
  - SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
    I'm willing to sign up for a fresh new app every 5-10 years. If they keep making them, I'll go with it. I don't think that they're making identical mistakes, but we can't assume that it will last.
  - frabcus 2y ago
    This one is at least a Benefit Corp. It's worth a go - seems to be working for, say, Kickstarter, which hasn't enshittified yet.
  - rsynnott 2y ago
    Well, that’s basically the history of social networks thus far, so, I mean, sure, why not? Obviously it’d be nice if it was the first social network not to either implode (Livejournal, Tumblr, Twitter), or fade into irrelevance (Friendster, Bebo, MySpace, Digg), or just ossify into mind-numbing tedium (Facebook, LinkedIn), but, well, if it does, presumably there’ll be another one along at some point. (I realise that you could probably argue Digg either way, here. Digg had a multi-paradigm end.)
fnordpiglet 2y ago
I can’t tell what their business model is - it seems creepily like the original twitter in that it’s not about making money but about making connections etc etc. Which is great until you need money.
- gethoht 2y ago
  They're going to launch a paid subscription model https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/24/24278666/bluesky-working-on-premium-subscription https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/24/24278666/bluesky-working...
valval 2y ago
Because of baseless nostalgia, you’ll always prove yourself right in this matter. Focusing on the things that are good and beautiful and making the future better than today would be a good start for someone with your mindset.

Bluesky reminds me of Twitter around ~2008, and Twitter only really got enshittified to the point that I barely use it this year. So I'm optimistic that we'll get a good decade in at least.

jauntywundrkind 2y ago
And we can takeaway our data. Everyone at Bluesky seems quite aligned on building systems with user sovereignty: > one of bluesky’s mottos is “the company is a future adversary,” so we have to design this service in a way that preserves user choice & freedom > users should own their data, identity, and relationships on the social internet, and devs should never get locked out of the ecosystems that they build https://bsky.app/profile/emilyliu.me/post/3jzkm4kezos2d https://bsky.app/profile/emilyliu.me/post/3jzkm4kezos2d For all the shrill man-child cries of 'censorship!', there's protocols underlying already for you to host yourself! People do! Heavens spare us from these X-grade losers.

madeofpalk 2y ago

The hope is being open and decentralised are counteracting forces to keep bluesky in check if they attempt to pull the rug. We're yet to see how this turns out in practice. I do fear that the ATProto model means that Bluesky is still a pretty central component in the ecosystem. Mastodon, in comparison, seems to be more resiliant to one 'instance' screwing things up. If Bluesky shut down all their servers tomorrow with no notice, what will happen to the network? If Mastodon shut down their servers (mastodon.social), users on that instance would be screwed, but me and many of the people I follow aren't on there so we would be fine.

webdoodle 2y ago

From some of the comments here, it sounds like BlueSky started with healthy dose of enshitification: censorship and suspensions.

Spivak 2y ago
That's honestly the nice thing about BlueSky, you can't ban anyone from the network entirely and filtering / moderation tools are put in the hands of users to do with as they please. If you get no engagement because you're on everyone's blocklist well that can't be on anyone except you since every user opts in to them.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  While I prefer Mastodon to Bluesky, it’s for the same reason. Anyone can spin up a Mastodon server. Anyone else is free to say, nah, I don’t want to talk to them. That doesn’t prevent that server from existing and peering with like-minded instances.
jauntywundrkind 2y ago
There's a bunch of right wing trolls who filmed themselves signing up & posting really shitty mean things. These are not well intended people; this is boundary pushing. You either lose by becoming a Nazi bar, or if you listen to them you lose by having their snivelling crocodile tears to deal with forever. These folks can go run their own PDS! But generally I think nothing of value was lost, that the network has rightly refused to let itself be degraded.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Also, I suspect there was something else going on there, because there are lots of bigots on Bluesky. The “Very British Bigotry” blocklist (for fancy modern/Rowling—style transphobes), say, has literally thousands of people, completely unbanned, on it; Bluesky is really fairly small-l liberal about post content. One thing that they’re somewhat strict on is profile content, and I would speculate that those performatively getting banned are doing so on the strength of putting shit in their profile.
  - hooverd 2y ago
    People can have abhorrent opinions and be civil about it. They typically, aren't.

kmbfjr 2y ago

Your cynicism is well founded, but until that happens, enjoy the platform.

likeabatterycar 2y ago
Is the plan to make a new app every 5-10 years when the old one crashes and burns for the same reasons? Surely the VC money will run out at some point.
- SideburnsOfDoom 2y ago
  I'm willing to sign up for a fresh new app every 5-10 years. If they keep making them, I'll go with it. I don't think that they're making identical mistakes, but we can't assume that it will last.
- frabcus 2y ago
  This one is at least a Benefit Corp. It's worth a go - seems to be working for, say, Kickstarter, which hasn't enshittified yet.
- rsynnott 2y ago
  Well, that’s basically the history of social networks thus far, so, I mean, sure, why not? Obviously it’d be nice if it was the first social network not to either implode (Livejournal, Tumblr, Twitter), or fade into irrelevance (Friendster, Bebo, MySpace, Digg), or just ossify into mind-numbing tedium (Facebook, LinkedIn), but, well, if it does, presumably there’ll be another one along at some point. (I realise that you could probably argue Digg either way, here. Digg had a multi-paradigm end.)

fnordpiglet 2y ago

I can’t tell what their business model is - it seems creepily like the original twitter in that it’s not about making money but about making connections etc etc. Which is great until you need money.

gethoht 2y ago
They're going to launch a paid subscription model https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/24/24278666/bluesky-working-on-premium-subscription https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/24/24278666/bluesky-working...

valval 2y ago

Because of baseless nostalgia, you’ll always prove yourself right in this matter. Focusing on the things that are good and beautiful and making the future better than today would be a good start for someone with your mindset.