4 ms·

How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? All you need to do is look up the mental health stats since the iPhone release to see why parents are

How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? All you need to do is look up the mental health stats since the iPhone release to see why parents are massively concerned. There has never been a time when an alert parent didn’t have a fair idea of what info a kid was exposed to. This is why going to university is such an awakening. Now the parents basically need a background in infosec to stop their kids accessing hardcore porn, violence and other mind bending content. That only works in your household. Do you stop play dates? Single your kids out as weird by banning all device use? Societal norms do not move at the speed of technology, so regulation needs to be applied unless there’s another alternative.

arresin 2y ago
I think that’s the cover story (because I agree it’s extremely valid).
nomilk 2y ago
> stop their kids accessing hardcore porn, violence and other mind bending content. Such sites are not among the social media sites required to verify Australian's ID/ages, which hints that protecting kids is merely a pretence.
- beardedwizard 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - nomilk 2y ago
    > Are you suggesting porn, violence, and other mind bending content is not present on social media? If protecting kids from porn is the objective, the most obvious thing to do would be to require age verification for porn sites, not some other random websites that happen to have occasional porn. Ironically, kids will now have to visit much more hardcore sites (4chan etc - ones without age verification) if they want to socialise online. The effects will be similar to banning alcohol, it doesn't decrease demand, just pushes it elsewhere creating worse problems along the way. See: perverse incentives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#Examples_of_perverse_incentives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#Examples_of...
    - djtango 2y ago
      Why is it 4chan and not WhatsApp groups? The internet was wild before social media but somehow the weird stuff remained fringe before recommendation algorithms and the perverse incentives that emerged from recommendation algorithms and content creation meant that feeds became an on ramp to all kinds of nasty things I'm not exactly a greybeard but I remember when happy slapping was a viral phenomenon but that seems pretty tame by comparison these days
      - nomilk 2y ago
        4chan is a synecdoche representing all those fringe ~'social media' substitute sites; they'll soon be common knowledge in Aus, at least among the U16s..
      - thrw42A8N 2y ago
        Eh, not really. I'd consider myself a greybeard (not literally, but I am online since 90s) and everything is so much tamer now. It wasn't unusual to find open, unprotected and unencrypted sites with really, really weird stuff - that kind you only see on darknet today. Over the decades, everything became mild, normal, mainstream - which is IMHO bad and I blame the algorithms.
  - Aurornis 2y ago
    The parent comment suggested of the sort. There is obviously more porn on porn sites than on moderated social media platforms. Pointing out that some porn occasionally evades filters on Facebook for a couple days doesn’t mean social media sites and porn sites are fully equivalent. > For me, social media is the worst thing we ever created. Calling social media the “worst thing we ever created” as a comment on a social media site is deeply ironic. I can’t believe how many commenters are assuming these laws will only apply to sites they don’t personally use. The amount of “good riddance” commenting from people inviting heavy handed internet ID checking regulation because they can’t imagine it would ever affect them personally is really scary.
    - beardedwizard 2y ago
      So your argument is that hackernews is similar to TikTok and instagram? I completely disagree. The core of HN is not self promotion, narration, or comparison - the very things driving teen suicides up from social media use. I further suggest most of the replies to my original comment are willfully ignoring the data the Australian govt is citing for these bans, and what psychologists worldwide are citing. None of the discussion here so far even touches on a possible solution to a problem that is driving measurable deaths. Instead we have a collection of false equivalence and abdication of social responsibility by big tech, which is fairly on brand for hn and frankly intellectually lazy from my perspective.
      - brokenmachine 2y ago
        From the actual bill: 63C Age-restricted social media platform (1) For the purposes of this Act, age-restricted social media platform means: (a) an electronic service that satisfies the following conditions: (i) the sole purpose, or a significant purpose, of the service is to enable online social interaction between 2 or more end-users; (ii) the service allows end-users to link to, or interact with, some or all of the other end-users; (iii) the service allows end-users to post material on the service; I would say that HN is covered under that. https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r7284_aspassed/toc_pdf/24150b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... You are quite shortsighted if you can't see the possible outcomes of such a far-reaching and anti-democratic law.
- arthurbrown 2y ago
  They are planning to enforce access to these sites with the same mechanism. https://www.esafety.gov.au/about-us/consultation-cooperation/age-verification https://www.esafety.gov.au/about-us/consultation-cooperation...
  - Cthulhu_ 2y ago
    But it's the internet; for every one site that implements this, there will be a thousand that don't, and for every one that the government takes down, another thousand will pop up. And that's just the actual porn sites, there's millions of other ways to get access, be it websites, privacy-conscious apps, file sharing, etc. If people want porn they'll find it. Of course, it being more difficult, technically involved, or otherwise shady will probably reinforce a message that it's not normal, because another issue is the normalization of porn to the point where people watch it in public. I'm also very aware I am just echoing the same thing an older generation has said about things like raunchy video clips on MTV, magazines like Playboy, movies with Marilyn Monroe, and painters painting a hint of ankle.
- illiac786 2y ago
  Well but that content is also distributed over this social media sites.
cs02rm0 2y ago
How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? That's exactly why there's a suggestion legacy media are driving this.
- bgun 2y ago
  It’s not like 14 year olds were reading newspapers before, and this is not a legacy media cartel trying get more teenagers into watching the news. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
  - illiac786 2y ago
    No, the argument is, the under 16 of today will be hooked on social media and will never read “classic” medias when they are older.
dryanau 2y ago
> How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? Adults do, and the OP's argument is that everyone (not just U16's) will be driven away by the changes. Being asked to provide ID may result in some just noping out or not signing up to newer services when they otherwise might have.
raxxorraxor 2y ago
Absolutely nothing you describe will be affected by an internet ID. And it doesn't even "Help a little", it just makes many things much worse.
raxxorraxor 2y ago
https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/03/hours-after-aussie-govt-greenlights-online-age-verification-pilot-mandated-verification-database-for-bars-is-breached/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/03/hours-after-aussie-govt-... If 16 year olds do indeed access pornography with such an amount of naiveté, there might really be a problem. But there is no indication of a problem, is there?

arresin 2y ago

I think that’s the cover story (because I agree it’s extremely valid).

nomilk 2y ago

> stop their kids accessing hardcore porn, violence and other mind bending content. Such sites are not among the social media sites required to verify Australian's ID/ages, which hints that protecting kids is merely a pretence.

beardedwizard 2y ago
[flagged]
- nomilk 2y ago
  > Are you suggesting porn, violence, and other mind bending content is not present on social media? If protecting kids from porn is the objective, the most obvious thing to do would be to require age verification for porn sites, not some other random websites that happen to have occasional porn. Ironically, kids will now have to visit much more hardcore sites (4chan etc - ones without age verification) if they want to socialise online. The effects will be similar to banning alcohol, it doesn't decrease demand, just pushes it elsewhere creating worse problems along the way. See: perverse incentives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#Examples_of_perverse_incentives https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverse_incentive#Examples_of...
  - djtango 2y ago
    Why is it 4chan and not WhatsApp groups? The internet was wild before social media but somehow the weird stuff remained fringe before recommendation algorithms and the perverse incentives that emerged from recommendation algorithms and content creation meant that feeds became an on ramp to all kinds of nasty things I'm not exactly a greybeard but I remember when happy slapping was a viral phenomenon but that seems pretty tame by comparison these days
    - nomilk 2y ago
      4chan is a synecdoche representing all those fringe ~'social media' substitute sites; they'll soon be common knowledge in Aus, at least among the U16s..
    - thrw42A8N 2y ago
      Eh, not really. I'd consider myself a greybeard (not literally, but I am online since 90s) and everything is so much tamer now. It wasn't unusual to find open, unprotected and unencrypted sites with really, really weird stuff - that kind you only see on darknet today. Over the decades, everything became mild, normal, mainstream - which is IMHO bad and I blame the algorithms.
- Aurornis 2y ago
  The parent comment suggested of the sort. There is obviously more porn on porn sites than on moderated social media platforms. Pointing out that some porn occasionally evades filters on Facebook for a couple days doesn’t mean social media sites and porn sites are fully equivalent. > For me, social media is the worst thing we ever created. Calling social media the “worst thing we ever created” as a comment on a social media site is deeply ironic. I can’t believe how many commenters are assuming these laws will only apply to sites they don’t personally use. The amount of “good riddance” commenting from people inviting heavy handed internet ID checking regulation because they can’t imagine it would ever affect them personally is really scary.
  - beardedwizard 2y ago
    So your argument is that hackernews is similar to TikTok and instagram? I completely disagree. The core of HN is not self promotion, narration, or comparison - the very things driving teen suicides up from social media use. I further suggest most of the replies to my original comment are willfully ignoring the data the Australian govt is citing for these bans, and what psychologists worldwide are citing. None of the discussion here so far even touches on a possible solution to a problem that is driving measurable deaths. Instead we have a collection of false equivalence and abdication of social responsibility by big tech, which is fairly on brand for hn and frankly intellectually lazy from my perspective.
    - brokenmachine 2y ago
      From the actual bill: 63C Age-restricted social media platform (1) For the purposes of this Act, age-restricted social media platform means: (a) an electronic service that satisfies the following conditions: (i) the sole purpose, or a significant purpose, of the service is to enable online social interaction between 2 or more end-users; (ii) the service allows end-users to link to, or interact with, some or all of the other end-users; (iii) the service allows end-users to post material on the service; I would say that HN is covered under that. https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bills/r7284_aspassed/toc_pdf/24150b01.pdf;fileType=application%2Fpdf https://parlinfo.aph.gov.au/parlInfo/download/legislation/bi... You are quite shortsighted if you can't see the possible outcomes of such a far-reaching and anti-democratic law.
arthurbrown 2y ago
They are planning to enforce access to these sites with the same mechanism. https://www.esafety.gov.au/about-us/consultation-cooperation/age-verification https://www.esafety.gov.au/about-us/consultation-cooperation...
- Cthulhu_ 2y ago
  But it's the internet; for every one site that implements this, there will be a thousand that don't, and for every one that the government takes down, another thousand will pop up. And that's just the actual porn sites, there's millions of other ways to get access, be it websites, privacy-conscious apps, file sharing, etc. If people want porn they'll find it. Of course, it being more difficult, technically involved, or otherwise shady will probably reinforce a message that it's not normal, because another issue is the normalization of porn to the point where people watch it in public. I'm also very aware I am just echoing the same thing an older generation has said about things like raunchy video clips on MTV, magazines like Playboy, movies with Marilyn Monroe, and painters painting a hint of ankle.
illiac786 2y ago
Well but that content is also distributed over this social media sites.

cs02rm0 2y ago

How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? That's exactly why there's a suggestion legacy media are driving this.

bgun 2y ago
It’s not like 14 year olds were reading newspapers before, and this is not a legacy media cartel trying get more teenagers into watching the news. Not everything has to be a conspiracy.
- illiac786 2y ago
  No, the argument is, the under 16 of today will be hooked on social media and will never read “classic” medias when they are older.

dryanau 2y ago

> How many under 16s read newspapers or watch news anyway? Adults do, and the OP's argument is that everyone (not just U16's) will be driven away by the changes. Being asked to provide ID may result in some just noping out or not signing up to newer services when they otherwise might have.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

Absolutely nothing you describe will be affected by an internet ID. And it doesn't even "Help a little", it just makes many things much worse.

raxxorraxor 2y ago

https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/03/hours-after-aussie-govt-greenlights-online-age-verification-pilot-mandated-verification-database-for-bars-is-breached/ https://www.techdirt.com/2024/05/03/hours-after-aussie-govt-... If 16 year olds do indeed access pornography with such an amount of naiveté, there might really be a problem. But there is no indication of a problem, is there?