4 ms·

It’s pretty unlikely that this is true for a few reasons: - Doctors want the best outcomes for their patients. They’ll use whatever treatment is most effective

It’s pretty unlikely that this is true for a few reasons: - Doctors want the best outcomes for their patients. They’ll use whatever treatment is most effective - Doctors want the best outcomes for themselves. If they’ve found an effective treatment that others are overlooking then they’ll seek to publish - Patients want the best outcomes for themselves. If there is an overlooked treatment then they’ll communicate it to their doctor it’s unlikely for an effective treatment to exist and be ignored by the medical community for decades just because something can’t be patented

DrScientist 2y ago
> Doctors want the best outcomes for themselves. If they’ve found an effective treatment that others are overlooking then they’ll seek to publish However often the work required to prove something is effective is beyond a capacity of a single Doctor. Also in terms of wanting the best outcome for themselves - sometimes that involves not putting their career at risk by trying unproven treatments on patients ( you are focussing on the outcome when it works, not the more likely outcome and consequence of it not working ). So sure 'miracle' cures are unlikely to lay undiscovered - but most improvements in medicine are incremental, rather than miraculous.
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. But it sounds like the parent said there’s a miracle treatment that the medical community is ignoring for lack of a financial incentive (and they then go on to mention a financial incentive?)
  - ALittleLight 2y ago
    That's a ridiculous reading of my comment. Vitamin C induces cell death in a variety of cancers. That's what I wrote and it's not controversial, it's documented in dozens of studies. I went on to link an article by medical doctors and cancer experts (on cancer.gov) who explain how this works and also explicitly state that it's not being researched due to lack of financial incentive. I can't stop you from refusing to read sources - but you should know that you're totally wrong here. I can, and have in this thread, cited multiple high quality sources.
    - DrScientist 2y ago
      Not read the Vitamin C literature but there is an obvious contradiction in what you say. ie how can you have sometime which is both obviously beneficial - backed up by dozens of studies and yet complain about lack of research - if it's so clear then why do we need more research? I also suspect doctors don't require FDA etc approval if they wanted to prescribe vitamen C - so what's stopping them? Lack of research? But I thought you knew? Having said all that it is beyond all doubt true that commercial organisations can't afford to spend money on researching drugs with no prospect of return - however I wouldn't characterise that as evil big pharma blocking something - it's simply just that's it's not their role. That role belongs to organisations either funded directly by the public ( charities ) or indirectly ( taxes ) for the greater good.
NotGMan 2y ago
>> If there is an overlooked treatment then they’ll communicate it to their doctor Hah sure. Try this and tell me how the egomanical "gods in white" react. Go through some stuff the RFK says about vaccines etc... and you'll see that in real life it's the opposite.
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  I’m not saying all doctors are perfect or even good, but surely there would be at least some occasions where a patient tries this supposedly very effective treatment, gets better, and the doctor is left curious.
- wat10000 2y ago
  The only thing you should take away from the stuff RFK says about vaccines is that RFK is a complete kook.
dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
Very wrong on all 3. It's an extremely naive world view.
- triceratops 2y ago
  Please explain to us all why glory and survival aren't more effective motivators than the money to be made from patenting something.
  - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    Things simply don't work that way. It cannot be explained, it has to be experienced.
    - triceratops 2y ago
      I was speaking from experience.
      - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
        No, not your personal experience, but the experiences of the others. For example look up Linus Pauling's writings on the subject, and the writings of his detractors. Spend atleast 50 hours on it. Also see my post on the same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42266462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42266462
- shepherdjerred 2y ago
  What do you think is correct instead?
  - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
    > - Doctors want the best outcomes for their patients. They’ll use whatever treatment is most effective. They will often do what make them the most money. Also remember that is doctor is subject to rules and regulations. He risks loosing his license if he does not toe the line. Your average medical student is about half a million dollars in debt when he/she graduates. > - Doctors want the best outcomes for themselves. If they’ve found an effective treatment that others are overlooking then they’ll seek to publish. Doctors do want the best outcomes for themselves, but if you manged to become a doctor, it means that you have never learned to question authority. Many doctors believe that what they are taught is Gospel. A doctor or a medical student who questions authority, will either not make it through medical college, or will have a license revoked. >- Patients want the best outcomes for themselves. If there is an overlooked treatment then they’ll communicate it to their doctor. A patient is generally ridiculed, or ignored by the doctor if he suggests something that he thinks is better. It goes without saying that there are exceptions both among doctors and patients.

DrScientist 2y ago

> Doctors want the best outcomes for themselves. If they’ve found an effective treatment that others are overlooking then they’ll seek to publish However often the work required to prove something is effective is beyond a capacity of a single Doctor. Also in terms of wanting the best outcome for themselves - sometimes that involves not putting their career at risk by trying unproven treatments on patients ( you are focussing on the outcome when it works, not the more likely outcome and consequence of it not working ). So sure 'miracle' cures are unlikely to lay undiscovered - but most improvements in medicine are incremental, rather than miraculous.

shepherdjerred 2y ago
I don’t disagree with anything you’re saying. But it sounds like the parent said there’s a miracle treatment that the medical community is ignoring for lack of a financial incentive (and they then go on to mention a financial incentive?)
- ALittleLight 2y ago
  That's a ridiculous reading of my comment. Vitamin C induces cell death in a variety of cancers. That's what I wrote and it's not controversial, it's documented in dozens of studies. I went on to link an article by medical doctors and cancer experts (on cancer.gov) who explain how this works and also explicitly state that it's not being researched due to lack of financial incentive. I can't stop you from refusing to read sources - but you should know that you're totally wrong here. I can, and have in this thread, cited multiple high quality sources.
  - DrScientist 2y ago
    Not read the Vitamin C literature but there is an obvious contradiction in what you say. ie how can you have sometime which is both obviously beneficial - backed up by dozens of studies and yet complain about lack of research - if it's so clear then why do we need more research? I also suspect doctors don't require FDA etc approval if they wanted to prescribe vitamen C - so what's stopping them? Lack of research? But I thought you knew? Having said all that it is beyond all doubt true that commercial organisations can't afford to spend money on researching drugs with no prospect of return - however I wouldn't characterise that as evil big pharma blocking something - it's simply just that's it's not their role. That role belongs to organisations either funded directly by the public ( charities ) or indirectly ( taxes ) for the greater good.

NotGMan 2y ago

>> If there is an overlooked treatment then they’ll communicate it to their doctor Hah sure. Try this and tell me how the egomanical "gods in white" react. Go through some stuff the RFK says about vaccines etc... and you'll see that in real life it's the opposite.

shepherdjerred 2y ago
I’m not saying all doctors are perfect or even good, but surely there would be at least some occasions where a patient tries this supposedly very effective treatment, gets better, and the doctor is left curious.
wat10000 2y ago
The only thing you should take away from the stuff RFK says about vaccines is that RFK is a complete kook.

dennis_jeeves2 2y ago

Very wrong on all 3. It's an extremely naive world view.

triceratops 2y ago
Please explain to us all why glory and survival aren't more effective motivators than the money to be made from patenting something.
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  Things simply don't work that way. It cannot be explained, it has to be experienced.
  - triceratops 2y ago
    I was speaking from experience.
    - dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
      No, not your personal experience, but the experiences of the others. For example look up Linus Pauling's writings on the subject, and the writings of his detractors. Spend atleast 50 hours on it. Also see my post on the same thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42266462 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42266462
shepherdjerred 2y ago
What do you think is correct instead?
- dennis_jeeves2 2y ago
  > - Doctors want the best outcomes for their patients. They’ll use whatever treatment is most effective. They will often do what make them the most money. Also remember that is doctor is subject to rules and regulations. He risks loosing his license if he does not toe the line. Your average medical student is about half a million dollars in debt when he/she graduates. > - Doctors want the best outcomes for themselves. If they’ve found an effective treatment that others are overlooking then they’ll seek to publish. Doctors do want the best outcomes for themselves, but if you manged to become a doctor, it means that you have never learned to question authority. Many doctors believe that what they are taught is Gospel. A doctor or a medical student who questions authority, will either not make it through medical college, or will have a license revoked. >- Patients want the best outcomes for themselves. If there is an overlooked treatment then they’ll communicate it to their doctor. A patient is generally ridiculed, or ignored by the doctor if he suggests something that he thinks is better. It goes without saying that there are exceptions both among doctors and patients.