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Because people make it so, not because the natural order of the world gets us there For some reason because we can validates that we should. Any jackass has th

Because people make it so, not because the natural order of the world gets us there For some reason because we can validates that we should. Any jackass has the power of a research team of phds. It's kinda weird.

uh_uh 2y ago
Demanding responsible behaviour from everybody is not going to work. Some people don't care about negative externalities that much and it's enough if only a few of them decide not to play ball. So either grandma needs to adapt which will upset some people or distributing the tech should be regulated/prosecuted which will upset another group of people.
- rockemsockem 2y ago
  I think either way grandma needs to adapt though since Russian scammers and trolls are still going to run scams with fake voices.
  - 123yawaworht456 2y ago
    how very politically correct of you to pretend it's Russians who scam your grandmas
    - rockemsockem 2y ago
      Insert any other country you like that doesn't have extradition agreements with the United States. Any other country the law can at least ostensibly be enforced there, even if it isn't always
chefandy 2y ago
Indeed. Humans ascended to dominance because we can cooperate. This every-man-for-themself idea is an aberration, not the natural order as so many claim. It’s rather astounding to think otherwise considering the logistics of how we’re communicating right now.
- uh_uh 2y ago
  Cooperation works if the potential damage caused by a rouge actor is sufficiently low. Otherwise, it's too easy to sabotage things. This is why we don't want random rouge states to have nukes. AI will give so much leverage to rouge actors that it will significantly shift the game theory in favour of not cooperating.
  - chefandy 2y ago
    > Cooperation works if the potential damage caused by a rouge actor is sufficiently low. Otherwise, it's too easy to sabotage things. This is why we don't want random rouge states to have nukes. AI will give so much leverage to rouge actors that it will significantly shift the game theory in favour of not cooperating. Governments successfully collectively controlling dangerous things so they don’t fall into the hands of rogue bad actors fundamentally opposes the extreme individualist every-man-for-himself perspective in every conceivable way. It’s the absolute opposite of “it’s everybody’s responsibility to protect themselves because everybody else is only going to look out for themselves.” And when individuals have that much leverage, collective action is the only conceivable way to oppose it. Some of those things might be cultural, like mores, some might be laws, some might be more martial. I don’t see how extreme individualism even theoretically could be more powerful.
    - uh_uh 2y ago
      Are you suggesting government action against putting up code like this to GitHub? It’s ok if you are, but I want to put into more concrete terms what we’re talking about.
      - chefandy 2y ago
        You’re the one that made the direct government control analogy. I mentioned a number of non-individualistic mechanisms in my previous comment. I’m not going to keep engaging in a fishing expedition of things to argue about — I think it’s pretty clear what aspect of your stance I disagree with— and am going to leave it at that.

uh_uh 2y ago

Demanding responsible behaviour from everybody is not going to work. Some people don't care about negative externalities that much and it's enough if only a few of them decide not to play ball. So either grandma needs to adapt which will upset some people or distributing the tech should be regulated/prosecuted which will upset another group of people.

rockemsockem 2y ago
I think either way grandma needs to adapt though since Russian scammers and trolls are still going to run scams with fake voices.
- 123yawaworht456 2y ago
  how very politically correct of you to pretend it's Russians who scam your grandmas
  - rockemsockem 2y ago
    Insert any other country you like that doesn't have extradition agreements with the United States. Any other country the law can at least ostensibly be enforced there, even if it isn't always

chefandy 2y ago

Indeed. Humans ascended to dominance because we can cooperate. This every-man-for-themself idea is an aberration, not the natural order as so many claim. It’s rather astounding to think otherwise considering the logistics of how we’re communicating right now.

uh_uh 2y ago
Cooperation works if the potential damage caused by a rouge actor is sufficiently low. Otherwise, it's too easy to sabotage things. This is why we don't want random rouge states to have nukes. AI will give so much leverage to rouge actors that it will significantly shift the game theory in favour of not cooperating.
- chefandy 2y ago
  > Cooperation works if the potential damage caused by a rouge actor is sufficiently low. Otherwise, it's too easy to sabotage things. This is why we don't want random rouge states to have nukes. AI will give so much leverage to rouge actors that it will significantly shift the game theory in favour of not cooperating. Governments successfully collectively controlling dangerous things so they don’t fall into the hands of rogue bad actors fundamentally opposes the extreme individualist every-man-for-himself perspective in every conceivable way. It’s the absolute opposite of “it’s everybody’s responsibility to protect themselves because everybody else is only going to look out for themselves.” And when individuals have that much leverage, collective action is the only conceivable way to oppose it. Some of those things might be cultural, like mores, some might be laws, some might be more martial. I don’t see how extreme individualism even theoretically could be more powerful.
  - uh_uh 2y ago
    Are you suggesting government action against putting up code like this to GitHub? It’s ok if you are, but I want to put into more concrete terms what we’re talking about.
    - chefandy 2y ago
      You’re the one that made the direct government control analogy. I mentioned a number of non-individualistic mechanisms in my previous comment. I’m not going to keep engaging in a fishing expedition of things to argue about — I think it’s pretty clear what aspect of your stance I disagree with— and am going to leave it at that.