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Remember, no one is actually in favor of free speech. Everyone, and I mean everyone, regardless of their personal political views, wants to silence people they

Remember, no one is actually in favor of free speech. Everyone, and I mean everyone, regardless of their personal political views, wants to silence people they disagree with. I suspect this is some kind of trait inherent to human psychology. Often, they’ll do so hiding behind complex philosophical rationales, but in the end the result is the same.

ChicagoDave 2y ago
Filtering out trolls, passive aggressive jerkoffs, and outright verbal abuse is everyone's right. Musk (and Dorsey) believe those people have a "right" to do those things without being muted. Right.
- lelanthran 2y ago
  > Filtering out trolls, passive aggressive jerkoffs, and outright verbal abuse is everyone's right. Musk (and Dorsey) believe those people have a "right" to do those things without being muted. > Right. Okay, when you get 99.999% of the population to agree on the definition of those terms and who they apply to, then sure ... let's take their voices away. My personal observation over the recent years is that these slurs, and more, are applied to anyone not in a group (which is literally a vocal minority), by that very same group. What we have now is a very vocal minority that is campaigning as if they have the support of the entire population, and they are calling anyone who doesn't support them some pretty awful names. Those terms of yours (and more, like "nazi") have been so diluted by overuse on the average person that they don't mean anything anymore. People unsupportive of the current approach to treating gender dysphoria are accused of being awful humans, while those doing the shaming are ignoring that we regard other types of dysphoria as mental issues, not fixable via surgery. More recently, I've noticed that the L, G and B individuals, that I personally know socially, are actively distancing themselves from the rest of that alphabet soup. So, yeah, we need some new terms to define what an actual troll is, because now the meaning includes "doesn't support my campaign for $IDEOLOGY".
  - ChicagoDave 2y ago
    If you don't know what fascism is or what a Nazi is, then I can't help you. Those words aren't diluted. Nazi A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler. The body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the Nazis in Germany during that period. Nazism Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-Slavism, anti-Romani sentiment, scientific racism, white supremacy, social Darwinism, homophobia, ableism, and the use of eugenics into its creed. Fascism Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum. The election was split by 1.7% and the population is very diverse on most issues, and it swings red because we have states with low populations with over-representation. Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, North and South Dakota provide ten senate seats represented by 6 million people (10% of the population would be 34 million), or less than 2%. Your "99.999%" statement is patently false. Bluesky does not block or mute people. The users do. Twitter/X has filtering mechanisms tweaked by Musk to favor his worldview. Which one is truly enabling free speech, and which one is just a billionaire's hobbyist misinformation platform? If you come to Bluesky and you're a jerk, you won't find a community that includes people that don't like jerks. You'll only find a community of people that likes jerks. Still open. Still free. No advertisement. No algorithm. You get out of it what you put in. Kind of like real life.
    - lelanthran 2y ago
      > If you don't know what fascism is or what a Nazi is, then I can't help you. My point is that I already know what those things are; the people calling others "Nazi" or "Fascist" apparently don't know what those terms mean. > Your "99.999%" statement is patently false. How so? It wasn't an assertion, it was a request: >>> Okay, when you get 99.999% of the population to agree on the definition of those terms and who they apply to, then sure ... let's take their voices away. Let me re-iterate: If almost half the voters who do not agree with the minority are getting called Nazis or Fascists by that minority (probably less than 10%), then those terms are watered down and meaningless.
_zagj 2y ago
> Everyone, and I mean everyone, regardless of their personal political views, wants to silence people they disagree with Pure projection.
- infotainment 2y ago
  Can you name anyone who was in ostensibly favor of free speech, and then, when given the opportunity to censor people, didn't seize it? The obvious example would be Elon, the "free speech absolutist" whose principles only lasted about a week from taking over Twitter. On a smaller scale, you can see this play out with Reddit mods on individual subreddits for just about anyone on the political spectrum. I suppose you could generalize my statement to "power corrupts", but the idea is the same.
  - _zagj 2y ago
    Do you remember what the internet was like 20 years ago? Censorship wasn't nearly as bad as it is now, and the push for more of it has predominantly come from one side.

ChicagoDave 2y ago

Filtering out trolls, passive aggressive jerkoffs, and outright verbal abuse is everyone's right. Musk (and Dorsey) believe those people have a "right" to do those things without being muted. Right.

lelanthran 2y ago
> Filtering out trolls, passive aggressive jerkoffs, and outright verbal abuse is everyone's right. Musk (and Dorsey) believe those people have a "right" to do those things without being muted. > Right. Okay, when you get 99.999% of the population to agree on the definition of those terms and who they apply to, then sure ... let's take their voices away. My personal observation over the recent years is that these slurs, and more, are applied to anyone not in a group (which is literally a vocal minority), by that very same group. What we have now is a very vocal minority that is campaigning as if they have the support of the entire population, and they are calling anyone who doesn't support them some pretty awful names. Those terms of yours (and more, like "nazi") have been so diluted by overuse on the average person that they don't mean anything anymore. People unsupportive of the current approach to treating gender dysphoria are accused of being awful humans, while those doing the shaming are ignoring that we regard other types of dysphoria as mental issues, not fixable via surgery. More recently, I've noticed that the L, G and B individuals, that I personally know socially, are actively distancing themselves from the rest of that alphabet soup. So, yeah, we need some new terms to define what an actual troll is, because now the meaning includes "doesn't support my campaign for $IDEOLOGY".
- ChicagoDave 2y ago
  If you don't know what fascism is or what a Nazi is, then I can't help you. Those words aren't diluted. Nazi A member of the National Socialist German Workers' Party, which controlled Germany from 1933 to 1945 under Adolf Hitler. The body of political and economic doctrines held and put into effect by the Nazis in Germany during that period. Nazism Nazism is a form of fascism, with disdain for liberal democracy and the parliamentary system. It incorporates a dictatorship, fervent antisemitism, anti-communism, anti-Slavism, anti-Romani sentiment, scientific racism, white supremacy, social Darwinism, homophobia, ableism, and the use of eugenics into its creed. Fascism Fascism is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. Opposed to anarchism, democracy, pluralism, egalitarianism, liberalism, socialism, and Marxism, fascism is at the far right of the traditional left–right spectrum. The election was split by 1.7% and the population is very diverse on most issues, and it swings red because we have states with low populations with over-representation. Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, North and South Dakota provide ten senate seats represented by 6 million people (10% of the population would be 34 million), or less than 2%. Your "99.999%" statement is patently false. Bluesky does not block or mute people. The users do. Twitter/X has filtering mechanisms tweaked by Musk to favor his worldview. Which one is truly enabling free speech, and which one is just a billionaire's hobbyist misinformation platform? If you come to Bluesky and you're a jerk, you won't find a community that includes people that don't like jerks. You'll only find a community of people that likes jerks. Still open. Still free. No advertisement. No algorithm. You get out of it what you put in. Kind of like real life.
  - lelanthran 2y ago
    > If you don't know what fascism is or what a Nazi is, then I can't help you. My point is that I already know what those things are; the people calling others "Nazi" or "Fascist" apparently don't know what those terms mean. > Your "99.999%" statement is patently false. How so? It wasn't an assertion, it was a request: >>> Okay, when you get 99.999% of the population to agree on the definition of those terms and who they apply to, then sure ... let's take their voices away. Let me re-iterate: If almost half the voters who do not agree with the minority are getting called Nazis or Fascists by that minority (probably less than 10%), then those terms are watered down and meaningless.

_zagj 2y ago

> Everyone, and I mean everyone, regardless of their personal political views, wants to silence people they disagree with Pure projection.

infotainment 2y ago
Can you name anyone who was in ostensibly favor of free speech, and then, when given the opportunity to censor people, didn't seize it? The obvious example would be Elon, the "free speech absolutist" whose principles only lasted about a week from taking over Twitter. On a smaller scale, you can see this play out with Reddit mods on individual subreddits for just about anyone on the political spectrum. I suppose you could generalize my statement to "power corrupts", but the idea is the same.
- _zagj 2y ago
  Do you remember what the internet was like 20 years ago? Censorship wasn't nearly as bad as it is now, and the push for more of it has predominantly come from one side.