6 ms·

It'll be interesting to see how the new administration deals with all of the big tech antitrust investigations and lawsuits it inherits. On one hand Trump and

by paxys 2y ago

It'll be interesting to see how the new administration deals with all of the big tech antitrust investigations and lawsuits it inherits. On one hand Trump and the Republicans hate these corporations, and would love the opportunity to take them down a notch. On the other their entire governing agenda is about deregulation, dismantling of federal agencies and being pro-business. Interesting situation to be in.

panarky 2y ago
What happens when you eliminate the independence of agencies like the DOJ and FTC, replace experienced leaders with party loyalists, and tee up opportunities for selective prosecution? Equal justice under law collapses into a race to see which competitor can pay the largest ransom.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  This is what makes me so angry and sad. My objections to the incoming administration largely have nothing to do with policy (I may disagree with policies, but I think it's easy to have an honest disagreement about that, and many of the purported policies I can agree with), but it's that it's now completely overt that the number one qualification for political appointees is obsequious fealty. I mean, we're closing in on banana republic levels of overt corruption: the only thing that matters is bending the knee. Paul Krugman (who I often disagree with) had a good article on how the rise of tariffs will be perfect for crony capitalism: the executive branch can't pick and choose who pays income taxes, but currently the executive branch has extremely wide latitude over tariffs, and especially, who gets exemptions. Watch as corporations line up to pledge allegiance in order to get tariff exemptions. I'm just completely at a loss at how this behavior, which would have been looked on with disgust on both sides of the political spectrum until very recently, is now so readily accepted.
  - sleepybrett 2y ago
    > I mean, we're closing in on banana republic levels of overt corruption: the only thing that matters is bending the knee. my dude, we passed that in 2016
    - gjsman-1000 2y ago
      my dude, we passed that in 2008
      - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
        Why do you think that?
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      I respectfully disagree. Sure, we may have been on our way, but I think the contrast between Jeff Sessions and Matt Gaetz/Pam Bondi really just shows how we're truly off the rails now. Jeff Sessions appropriately recused himself from investigations into the Trump campaign, because 8 years ago we still expected the Justice Department to act impartially. In doing that, Sessions got nothing but the deep ire of Trump, solely because he wasn't willing to act as the President's personal lawyer. Now, though, both Gaetz and Bondi have basically fallen over backward saying they'll do whatever Trump asks. The only reason Gaetz wasn't confirmed wasn't because he said flatly that he would weaponize the Justice department, but it was because he's basically loathed by everyone on Capitol Hill (IMO the sex and drug allegations were more of a convenient out to not confirm him rather than the true reason for his withdrawal). The current situation is completely without precedent in my lifetime.
  - QuarterReptile 2y ago
    Trump 45 never got off the ground because he just tried to pick the smartest generals, who in turn disagreed with him on many things and eventually broke with him. Republican legislature is similarly undisciplined. On Democrat agendas, a single senator will defect during important bills. When Republicans have control, some random Rep stages a coup against the leadership. I think they're realizing that you don't win at party politics by failing to have a party, and the party is more than just cheerleaders and fundraising. They're clearly not done consolidating power yet, considering the withdrawal of Gaetz and the lingering of a few impeachment representatives. Hopefully what he gains in consistency and teamwork isn't totally overshadowed by the fact that his loyal people are, in many cases, not longtime government officials.
  - ethbr1 2y ago
    It used to be the status quo, before the civil service reforms ~1875.
    - wyldfire 2y ago
      Ah, yes - let's make it great again. Like it was in 1875!
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      Thanks for your comment, it led me to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service_reform_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service_reform_in_the_..., which I think gives a very good overview of the history of civil service reforms in the US.
      - ethbr1 2y ago
        I went down a rabbit hole on the history of the US civil service, after reading a Teddy Roosevelt biography. It was surprising to see just how corrupt/archaic the then system was, by modern standards. But yet the country still functioned. My takeaway was that the existence of the civil service at all, rather than its particular virtue, dominated value. There's benefit from even a pretty corrupt one!
- PKop 2y ago
  I don't want independent agencies. I want agencies with accountability to the voters through their elected representatives. What you describe is madness. Government bureaucrats that aren't elected, cannot be fired by the people, and... outside the power of the president who is supposed to be in charge of the executive branch? What kind of government is this? Not democracy.
  - guhidalg 2y ago
    All US government agencies are created through congress, by your elected representatives. It is the executive branch (the president, who is also elected) that is then responsible for carrying out the agency's mission. All the high-level government bureaucrats are confirmed by the senate, all elected officials. If a president dismisses them, the senate has to confirm their replacement. This kind of government is described in the US constitution.
    - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
      This is a disingenuous take. The agencies as they currently function (creating rules) isn't "described in the US constitution". We got here via a combination of practice, legislation and court decisions over decades and decades and decades. And recently court cases are swinging back against the power of the agencies.
      - threeseed 2y ago
        It has always been the responsibility of agencies to implement the strategic objectives passed by Congress i.e. create the rules. It is not reasonable nor sensible for Congress to shift towards defining in minutiae every detail about how the laws should be implemented. Which are then locked in stone until a new bill is passed. Or not passed as in the case with Congress these days. Because as we've seen time and time again innocent mistakes will be made and you want them rectified as quickly and easily as possible.
        danielmarkbruce 2y ago
- danielmarkbruce 2y ago
  Trump was elected. The president is supposed to be the head of the administrative branch of the government. He has actually been quite straightforward about what he wants to do. If a country elects a bunch of bad eggs, it all falls over. There isn't a way around it.
  - treyd 2y ago
    Let's hopw this whole federalism thing works out and states pick up the slack when the federal government can't.
    - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
      As far as the specifics against MSFT, I hope no one does anything. A company can choose to deal with MSFT or not, it's no mystery what they are signing up for. There are good alternatives.
- MrHamburger 2y ago
  You just described what was happening in 1950s in Eastern Europe when communism came to town and started purging every "evil capitalist pig". It has turned out that loyalty can't be exchanged for merit and all the countries slowly declined until 1990s when communism just imploded. But instead of paying ransoms, result would be concentration camp. We were calling them "Labor camps" because communism is not Nazism. However sign "Work to Freedom" was used on the entrance of such camps.
2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago
Pledge fealty and all your problems will go away
netsharc 2y ago
> On the other their entire governing agenda is about deregulation, dismantling of federal agencies and being pro-business. Oh, honey[1]. If the apparatchik remains spineless and lets them get away with it, there'll be some remnants the supposed agenda, but I think the real agenda is whatever makes them money. Already people close to him are charging others for access to him/cushy jobs[2]. Gosh, I'm trying to re-find this commentary account where it's headlines out of Washington but written like the way western media writes about some despotic African nation, but maybe I just need to wait until January. Heck, Trump even bilked taxpayers by charging SS members a lot of money for accomodation in Mar-A-Lago or Trump Tower, and they had/have to stay there because they were guarding him [3]... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_JfAZ5vlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_JfAZ5vlc [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/11/25/trump-epshteyn-legal-review-conflicts/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/11/25/trump-epsht... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-secret-service-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-...
- QuarterReptile 2y ago
  It sounds like your conspiracy theory is that Trump is just trying to pull off a big payday? I won't demean you by suggesting that you're unaware of the absurdity in that. As to giving free hotel stays to the government, I'm not well attuned to the conduct of the ultra-rich, but in the reasonably comfortable ranks of the GS-teens, I assure you no one is lining up to spend his own money to make government work, despite the enormous escapes from brain damage that can often be achieved for relatively little money by just going to Staples, Home Depot, etc. and just resupplying the office on one's own dime.
  - ben_w 2y ago
    > I won't demean you by suggesting that you're unaware of the absurdity in that. It's by far the least absurd thing about Trump, who also got a press conference in a garden centre car park between a sex shop and a crematorium, which was then was mocked by furries who turned it into a VRChat environment, and the lawyer presenting that press conference got disbarred for trying to overturn the election; while the man himself has 34 felony charges for falsifying business records to hide showing he paid off a porn star that he claims not to have had sex with even though the sex part and the payment for silence is totally legal just you need to not lie about how much you spend in total on campaign finance and business expenses. I think that's the kind of setup that Douglas Adams or Armando Iannucci would use. Oh, and I almost forgot about the gold-coloured toilet.
internet101010 2y ago
I'm really worried about what happens to the case against RealPage.
- mikeocool 2y ago
  Would be really remarkable to call yourself a populist and then kill the case against landlords colluding to raise rent, but seems like that’s what’s likely to happen.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > remarkable to call yourself a populist Trump never used this language. (He was also aggressive against Big Tech in his first term.)
    - shigawire 2y ago
      Not directly but he clearly frames his policies, to paraphrase, as "taking back the country for the people". I'd argue it is disingenuous to say his rhetoric is not primarily taping into popularist sentiments.
shmerl 2y ago
Pro-monopoly (that's what "deregulation" in practice means) is not the same as pro-business. It's pro very specific business which wants to have no competition which is very unhealthy for business in general.
- Dracophoenix 2y ago
  Regulation is in fact pro-monopoly. It serves as a cudgel against would-be competitors and keeps incumbents in place even where they would produce worse service at a higher cost. Deregulation as demonstrated in the industries of air travel and telecommunications have produced more competition, not less.
  - shmerl 2y ago
    Is this some kind of joke? Air travel and telecommunications had some of the worst consolidations over time. Nothing good came out of it precisely due to decrease in competition. This reminds me 1984 with its war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. Now add to that your "monopoly is free market" koolaid.
    - Dracophoenix 2y ago
      Prior to the 1980s, the government price-fixed airline tickets and legally instituted AT&T as the sole national carrier of the country. Legal mandates against price competition and the entry of new competitors into a national market is not a free market. If you've been able to have conversations with someone on the other side of the world at little to no cost or you've enjoyed multiple trips across world without breaking the bank, then you've benefited from the deregulation of these industries.

by paxys 2y ago

panarky 2y ago

What happens when you eliminate the independence of agencies like the DOJ and FTC, replace experienced leaders with party loyalists, and tee up opportunities for selective prosecution? Equal justice under law collapses into a race to see which competitor can pay the largest ransom.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
This is what makes me so angry and sad. My objections to the incoming administration largely have nothing to do with policy (I may disagree with policies, but I think it's easy to have an honest disagreement about that, and many of the purported policies I can agree with), but it's that it's now completely overt that the number one qualification for political appointees is obsequious fealty. I mean, we're closing in on banana republic levels of overt corruption: the only thing that matters is bending the knee. Paul Krugman (who I often disagree with) had a good article on how the rise of tariffs will be perfect for crony capitalism: the executive branch can't pick and choose who pays income taxes, but currently the executive branch has extremely wide latitude over tariffs, and especially, who gets exemptions. Watch as corporations line up to pledge allegiance in order to get tariff exemptions. I'm just completely at a loss at how this behavior, which would have been looked on with disgust on both sides of the political spectrum until very recently, is now so readily accepted.
- sleepybrett 2y ago
  > I mean, we're closing in on banana republic levels of overt corruption: the only thing that matters is bending the knee. my dude, we passed that in 2016
  - gjsman-1000 2y ago
    my dude, we passed that in 2008
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      Why do you think that?
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    I respectfully disagree. Sure, we may have been on our way, but I think the contrast between Jeff Sessions and Matt Gaetz/Pam Bondi really just shows how we're truly off the rails now. Jeff Sessions appropriately recused himself from investigations into the Trump campaign, because 8 years ago we still expected the Justice Department to act impartially. In doing that, Sessions got nothing but the deep ire of Trump, solely because he wasn't willing to act as the President's personal lawyer. Now, though, both Gaetz and Bondi have basically fallen over backward saying they'll do whatever Trump asks. The only reason Gaetz wasn't confirmed wasn't because he said flatly that he would weaponize the Justice department, but it was because he's basically loathed by everyone on Capitol Hill (IMO the sex and drug allegations were more of a convenient out to not confirm him rather than the true reason for his withdrawal). The current situation is completely without precedent in my lifetime.
- QuarterReptile 2y ago
  Trump 45 never got off the ground because he just tried to pick the smartest generals, who in turn disagreed with him on many things and eventually broke with him. Republican legislature is similarly undisciplined. On Democrat agendas, a single senator will defect during important bills. When Republicans have control, some random Rep stages a coup against the leadership. I think they're realizing that you don't win at party politics by failing to have a party, and the party is more than just cheerleaders and fundraising. They're clearly not done consolidating power yet, considering the withdrawal of Gaetz and the lingering of a few impeachment representatives. Hopefully what he gains in consistency and teamwork isn't totally overshadowed by the fact that his loyal people are, in many cases, not longtime government officials.
- ethbr1 2y ago
  It used to be the status quo, before the civil service reforms ~1875.
  - wyldfire 2y ago
    Ah, yes - let's make it great again. Like it was in 1875!
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    Thanks for your comment, it led me to https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service_reform_in_the_United_States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service_reform_in_the_..., which I think gives a very good overview of the history of civil service reforms in the US.
    - ethbr1 2y ago
      I went down a rabbit hole on the history of the US civil service, after reading a Teddy Roosevelt biography. It was surprising to see just how corrupt/archaic the then system was, by modern standards. But yet the country still functioned. My takeaway was that the existence of the civil service at all, rather than its particular virtue, dominated value. There's benefit from even a pretty corrupt one!
PKop 2y ago
I don't want independent agencies. I want agencies with accountability to the voters through their elected representatives. What you describe is madness. Government bureaucrats that aren't elected, cannot be fired by the people, and... outside the power of the president who is supposed to be in charge of the executive branch? What kind of government is this? Not democracy.
- guhidalg 2y ago
  All US government agencies are created through congress, by your elected representatives. It is the executive branch (the president, who is also elected) that is then responsible for carrying out the agency's mission. All the high-level government bureaucrats are confirmed by the senate, all elected officials. If a president dismisses them, the senate has to confirm their replacement. This kind of government is described in the US constitution.
  - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
    This is a disingenuous take. The agencies as they currently function (creating rules) isn't "described in the US constitution". We got here via a combination of practice, legislation and court decisions over decades and decades and decades. And recently court cases are swinging back against the power of the agencies.
    - threeseed 2y ago
      It has always been the responsibility of agencies to implement the strategic objectives passed by Congress i.e. create the rules. It is not reasonable nor sensible for Congress to shift towards defining in minutiae every detail about how the laws should be implemented. Which are then locked in stone until a new bill is passed. Or not passed as in the case with Congress these days. Because as we've seen time and time again innocent mistakes will be made and you want them rectified as quickly and easily as possible.
      - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
danielmarkbruce 2y ago
Trump was elected. The president is supposed to be the head of the administrative branch of the government. He has actually been quite straightforward about what he wants to do. If a country elects a bunch of bad eggs, it all falls over. There isn't a way around it.
- treyd 2y ago
  Let's hopw this whole federalism thing works out and states pick up the slack when the federal government can't.
  - danielmarkbruce 2y ago
    As far as the specifics against MSFT, I hope no one does anything. A company can choose to deal with MSFT or not, it's no mystery what they are signing up for. There are good alternatives.
MrHamburger 2y ago
You just described what was happening in 1950s in Eastern Europe when communism came to town and started purging every "evil capitalist pig". It has turned out that loyalty can't be exchanged for merit and all the countries slowly declined until 1990s when communism just imploded. But instead of paying ransoms, result would be concentration camp. We were calling them "Labor camps" because communism is not Nazism. However sign "Work to Freedom" was used on the entrance of such camps.

2OEH8eoCRo0 2y ago

Pledge fealty and all your problems will go away

netsharc 2y ago

> On the other their entire governing agenda is about deregulation, dismantling of federal agencies and being pro-business. Oh, honey[1]. If the apparatchik remains spineless and lets them get away with it, there'll be some remnants the supposed agenda, but I think the real agenda is whatever makes them money. Already people close to him are charging others for access to him/cushy jobs[2]. Gosh, I'm trying to re-find this commentary account where it's headlines out of Washington but written like the way western media writes about some despotic African nation, but maybe I just need to wait until January. Heck, Trump even bilked taxpayers by charging SS members a lot of money for accomodation in Mar-A-Lago or Trump Tower, and they had/have to stay there because they were guarding him [3]... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_JfAZ5vlc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0_JfAZ5vlc [2] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/11/25/trump-epshteyn-legal-review-conflicts/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2024/11/25/trump-epsht... [3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-secret-service-spending/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2020/politics/trump-...

QuarterReptile 2y ago
It sounds like your conspiracy theory is that Trump is just trying to pull off a big payday? I won't demean you by suggesting that you're unaware of the absurdity in that. As to giving free hotel stays to the government, I'm not well attuned to the conduct of the ultra-rich, but in the reasonably comfortable ranks of the GS-teens, I assure you no one is lining up to spend his own money to make government work, despite the enormous escapes from brain damage that can often be achieved for relatively little money by just going to Staples, Home Depot, etc. and just resupplying the office on one's own dime.
- ben_w 2y ago
  > I won't demean you by suggesting that you're unaware of the absurdity in that. It's by far the least absurd thing about Trump, who also got a press conference in a garden centre car park between a sex shop and a crematorium, which was then was mocked by furries who turned it into a VRChat environment, and the lawyer presenting that press conference got disbarred for trying to overturn the election; while the man himself has 34 felony charges for falsifying business records to hide showing he paid off a porn star that he claims not to have had sex with even though the sex part and the payment for silence is totally legal just you need to not lie about how much you spend in total on campaign finance and business expenses. I think that's the kind of setup that Douglas Adams or Armando Iannucci would use. Oh, and I almost forgot about the gold-coloured toilet.

internet101010 2y ago

I'm really worried about what happens to the case against RealPage.

mikeocool 2y ago
Would be really remarkable to call yourself a populist and then kill the case against landlords colluding to raise rent, but seems like that’s what’s likely to happen.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > remarkable to call yourself a populist Trump never used this language. (He was also aggressive against Big Tech in his first term.)
  - shigawire 2y ago
    Not directly but he clearly frames his policies, to paraphrase, as "taking back the country for the people". I'd argue it is disingenuous to say his rhetoric is not primarily taping into popularist sentiments.

shmerl 2y ago

Pro-monopoly (that's what "deregulation" in practice means) is not the same as pro-business. It's pro very specific business which wants to have no competition which is very unhealthy for business in general.

Dracophoenix 2y ago
Regulation is in fact pro-monopoly. It serves as a cudgel against would-be competitors and keeps incumbents in place even where they would produce worse service at a higher cost. Deregulation as demonstrated in the industries of air travel and telecommunications have produced more competition, not less.
- shmerl 2y ago
  Is this some kind of joke? Air travel and telecommunications had some of the worst consolidations over time. Nothing good came out of it precisely due to decrease in competition. This reminds me 1984 with its war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength. Now add to that your "monopoly is free market" koolaid.
  - Dracophoenix 2y ago
    Prior to the 1980s, the government price-fixed airline tickets and legally instituted AT&T as the sole national carrier of the country. Legal mandates against price competition and the entry of new competitors into a national market is not a free market. If you've been able to have conversations with someone on the other side of the world at little to no cost or you've enjoyed multiple trips across world without breaking the bank, then you've benefited from the deregulation of these industries.