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Wait, you give up civil rights to be in the military? Is this outlined to people when they sign up?

LeftHandPath 2y ago
Yes. See the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justi...
throwup238 2y ago
Yes it’s made very clear in the enlistment contract (the military equivalent of an employment agreement) that they’re waiving certain rights and submit themselves to military jurisdiction for offenses covered under the UCMJ. This topic has been litigated a lot in front of SCOTUS like with Standard Form 86 (where one waives the right to free speech for security clearance) so there’s certain language they have to contain to be valid.
gzer0 2y ago
Wow, TIL that if you're drafted (and forced to serve against your will), the government can subject you to military law (UCMJ), which limits many of your rights, like the right to a civilian trial by jury. Courts have upheld this because Congress has the power to regulate the military, but it still feels like a huge shift in rights for someone forced to serve. It feels... intuitively unjust that the government could compel service and then subject individuals to a system that limits their constitutional rights.
- pas 2y ago
  seems very logical considering the last centuries. nation state needs military, military needs people to STFU and do what needs to be done. and unfair, considering that rich people always found ways to dodge the draft or serve in armchair positions, but taking this into account it's just even more obvious that special interests did what they usually do.
- bityard 2y ago
  If it makes it any better, drafts only happen during wartime and only if there aren't enough troops to wage the war with volunteers alone. So ostensibly a draft occurs when the country is facing a threat to its existence. So if you feel bad about the concept of a draft, understand that the alternative may be a lost war.

Yes. See the Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justice https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Code_of_Military_Justi...

throwup238 2y ago

Yes it’s made very clear in the enlistment contract (the military equivalent of an employment agreement) that they’re waiving certain rights and submit themselves to military jurisdiction for offenses covered under the UCMJ. This topic has been litigated a lot in front of SCOTUS like with Standard Form 86 (where one waives the right to free speech for security clearance) so there’s certain language they have to contain to be valid.

gzer0 2y ago

Wow, TIL that if you're drafted (and forced to serve against your will), the government can subject you to military law (UCMJ), which limits many of your rights, like the right to a civilian trial by jury. Courts have upheld this because Congress has the power to regulate the military, but it still feels like a huge shift in rights for someone forced to serve. It feels... intuitively unjust that the government could compel service and then subject individuals to a system that limits their constitutional rights.

pas 2y ago
seems very logical considering the last centuries. nation state needs military, military needs people to STFU and do what needs to be done. and unfair, considering that rich people always found ways to dodge the draft or serve in armchair positions, but taking this into account it's just even more obvious that special interests did what they usually do.
bityard 2y ago
If it makes it any better, drafts only happen during wartime and only if there aren't enough troops to wage the war with volunteers alone. So ostensibly a draft occurs when the country is facing a threat to its existence. So if you feel bad about the concept of a draft, understand that the alternative may be a lost war.