7 ms·

I installed this in the morning to give it a test drive, and after several hours, I learned the following: it's great when I reach for the phone as a distractio

I installed this in the morning to give it a test drive, and after several hours, I learned the following: it's great when I reach for the phone as a distraction; it's a big annoyance otherwise. E.g. each time I want to change the currently playing song, what was muscle memory gets scrambled by the interruption. Or, when I'm taking a lot of photos (like on my daughter's kindergarten event today), I tend to keep the screen off in between, and rely on being able to turn it on and shoot a photo in less than two seconds, total. Guess how that got screwed up by this app. The app itself is great, and I'm still a believer in the concept of managing executive function issues by throwing obstacles in front of bad habits and known focus black holes. However, this experience made me discover the third class of phone activity, next to "distraction" and "work" - quick, intermittent, on-the-fly use, the kind you ideally don't think much about. This class does not distract you... unless someone adds friction to it. I just saw the app has "every N unlocks" option, I'll try it out and see if this helps with the "third class".

ar_lan 2y ago
This sounds like a good case for an allowlist for certain applications - Camera, Spotify, Notes, etc.
echelon 2y ago
This is where an OS-based agent would help. If it semantically understood the tasks we're trying to accomplish, it could filter the cases we care about. I'm even more excited about browser or OS agents being able to unilaterally scrub the web of all advertisements, spam, polarized toxicity, etc. Forget adblock - I can effectively block all the bad things Google, Meta, Twitter, etc. do and their army of PMs won't be able to stop me. This tech is going to rip the advertiser and algorithmic madness out of the internet and make it serve me and only me.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  neither Apple or Google will ever develop this given that their core Business depends on users using their phones often
  - Tistron 2y ago
    In what way does apple depend on users using their phones often? I am also hoping somebody would develop helpful agents like gp suggests
    - hackernewds 2y ago
      Apple takes a 30% cut? If gamers stop playing addictive games with microtransactions then they would lose quite a bit. Same with showing ads. Or everything else in their software section of revenue
bornfreddy 2y ago
Maybe the app should kick in only if you start using one of the "bad" apps, like a browser or a social network app? Being in the way when I want to snap a quick photo doesn't sound nice.
- koevet 2y ago
  For this use case, I use "IChooseTo" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsofuse.ict https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsofuse....
  - throwawayk7h 2y ago
    This looks like it's based on a timer, and prevents you from using the app if you use it for, say, too long. Is that right? I have legitimate longform uses of my browser app as well as bad ones.
- jkukul 2y ago
  I use iOS's built in Screen Time settings. For "bad" apps (Reddit, TikTok, etc) and "bad" websites ("hackernews", etc) I set a daily time limit of, let's say, 15 minutes. I configure a random password for Screen Time so that it's a real hassle to circumvent the daily limit when I get over it.
- hackernewds 2y ago
  this is 100% what I want, and I'd gladly pay $10/month for this
- gen220 2y ago
  What I did (helped me eventually delete them) was offload the "bad" apps on my phone so, if I wanted to access them, I'd have to wait for them to re-download. This is an iOS feature where the pointer to the app and the local data remains, but the app bundle itself is deleted. I think it's primary use case is to manage scarce disk space. It forced me to reckon with the fact that tapping on these apps is often a system 1 instinct. The forced delay to reinstall the app is an escape hatch into system 2 thinking, a mode in which I normally realize I don't even want to use the app, I'm just bored. And then I'd pick up a book or use my newspaper-reader-app (i.e. a more intent/system 2-driven choice). Off-loading apps or even just removing them from the home screen is really helpful. It gives your system 2 brain an opportunity to mutate your environment to make system 1 processes lead to more fruitful outcomes. For the same reason, I clear my browser history every month or so and avoid bookmarking certain sites like hn or reddit.
iandanforth 2y ago
Re: The photos case: I have the camera app bound to a double click of my power button. I find it to be incredibly useful to have a way to immediately open my camera and Intenty doesn't override that flow.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  Hah, I used to do that too, however I changed it so double-press of the side button toggles the flashlight instead. I find this to have much better ROI. For camera, turning the screen off while camera app is open means I can just press the power button and slide up, and I'm back in camera app (unless Intenty interferes). For flashlight, having a quick key (that works even when the phone is locked) is a qualitative change - I use the phone flashlight much more often, now that I can casually turn it on and off with zero effort, like a traditional torch. There are actually two major use cases I have for that daily: - In autumn/winter, by the time I pick my kids up from the kindergarten, it's already dark. There's a stretch of pavement that's pitch dark, so I just casually light it up as we walk over it. (That was the driver behind me changing the button mapping from camera to flashlight; having done that, I now instinctively turn the flashlight on and off as I walk, lighting up dark spots.) - Have you ever tried to read something from a phone while walking at night? It's a big problem - the screen pretty much blinds you, unless you turn the brightness down to minimum. You can't read and monitor ground under your feet at the same time. However, if you also turn on the flashlight, the brightness of the screen and the light reflecting off the ground are similar, so reading becomes comfortable and you regain awareness of terrain. I figured out that trick long ago, first with Kindle (Paperwhite) - I'd put my phone against the back of the Kindle, turn the backlight on the reader, and the flashlight on the phone. But it works even better for reading from the phone itself.
andai 2y ago
This is solved by having dedicated devices for camera and music player! (At least for these two examples, which are also my top non-distraction / non-social phone usage.) I don't have those yet but I wish I did! I was just thinking back to how cool the iPod was back in the day. (The one before touchscreens!) (I was also thinking how cool it would be if it had the iPod's UI but Rockbox's (and every other mp3 player in human history) support for just putting folders full of files on it... but I guess I'll keep dreaming!)
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  That's fair. I miss MP3 players and even feature phones - all of them could be operated without looking at them! Alas, ever since Apple showed it's Courage™ by ditching the audio jack, Bluetooth headphones became ubiquitous (doubly so thanks to AirPods and alternatives). They're nice and all, but they also have mikes, so you want to use them for calling and voice messaging too, and then you can also put notifications on them, ... with Bluetooth device switching being what it is, this complements and reinforces smartphone's role as single device for everything. EDIT: I wonder if it's possible to have some kind of mixer wearable that would accept wireless audio streams (both in "music" and "headset" modes) from multiple devices, mix them together, and route to a single set of wireless headphones. That would solve a lot of the issues I have with wireless audio in practice.
- ar_lan 2y ago
  That is a solution, but not an ideal one for many (most?). One of the great innovations of the smartphone is that I have all 3 devices in one small form factor, so I don't need to carry/travel with the bulk of many.
- cardanome 2y ago
  I actually went full old-school and got an portable cd-player. This has the side effect of me listening to music more intentionally and not wasting time selecting tracks and skipping around. Listening to a full album is great, something I rarely did before. And physically owning music feels great. Sure, it is less practical for traveling but it mostly sits on my desk to help me get through work. And CD's having a fixed run length helps me to take breaks so my tinnitus does not get worse.
jarko27 2y ago
Thanks for giving it a test drive! I'm thinking also about adding an option to have like 50% chance of a popup or a 75% chance, so it's less predictable. I first made it as every 2nd, 3d and so on, but maybe adding a randomness to it will be better? WDYT?
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  For my use case, randomness would make it even worse. For muscle memory, consistency is key. I don't know what the solution is - ideally, the app would not interrupt such quick actions like unlocking to take a photo or switch the song, but in practice, it can't exactly guess what I'm going to do before I do it. I was thinking about maybe "unlock and don't show the popup for the next 5 minutes", but then I already know that one of these days, I'll activate it for "one quick check of Instagram" (or HN), defeating the purpose of the application. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I've been mulling this problem (selective blocking in dual-purpose apps/sites) in my mind for a long time now, but I haven't found any solution so far.
  - j1elo 2y ago
    Here's maybe a solution: don't trigger the app if the phone is unlocked via a hardware shortcut. At least in my last 2 phones, I got them configured such that a double press on the power button wakes the camera app immediately (great for quick photos), while the rest of the system is still locked (need the unlock pin when trying to navigate away from the camera app) So in that situation the app could choose not to interrupt.
    - bfdm 2y ago
      +1 I rely on this hardware shortcut heavily when trying to catch photos of the kids in fleeting moments. Edit: just tested this and the nudge does not appear to interrupt the camera quick access
      - j1elo 2y ago
        Fastest feature request implementation ever! :-)
lubujackson 2y ago
Better solution: add in increasing delay before opening a time waster, increasing 1 second between each open over the course of the day. Openning Reddit for the 15th time today? 15 second wait (or longer).
hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I already have an app that does this on Android (One Sec is the app) and it only inserts a "mindfulness break" for specific apps (e.g. Chrome and social media), and I came to the same conclusion you did. It's grind when I just mindlessly tap to open the browser to search for something random. Lots of times, though, the browser opens when I want to do something quickly, e.g. I get an email and I need to open something in the browser, and it becomes a big annoyance. After a while I just started subconsciously ignoring it, which I think defeats the purpose. It's a tough problem to solve - I want it to prevent me from doing "mindless scrolling", but not when I have an actual task to accomplish.
- iterateoften 2y ago
  Having work and leisure mixed on a device or service is a pain. I had tried to block Reddit but then I needed it when researching some programming stuff. Most conversations happen on Reddit these days so if you need to look something up for work to see what others are doing, chances are Google will give you Reddit links first especially if what you are searching for is relatively recent. What I found is that I developed a muscle memory for just ignoring the block and overriding it. Instead of allowing myself an override that so I could dismiss the block I had to just hard block all of Reddit by setting an PIN I immediately forgot and if I really need something I’ll use ChatGPT to summarize.
  - esperent 2y ago
    > I had tried to block Reddit but then I needed it when researching some programming stuff I used to have this problem. But now I just use Claude to research any coding or similar stuff that I would have used reddit for. The quality is at least as good as reddit discussions. Now I've totally blocked reddit using NextDNS on my phone and laptop, and configured Kagi to not return any reddit search results.
- canadianfella 2y ago
  [dead]
- james_david 2y ago
guptat59 2y ago
Screenzen (android) does exactly this and I navigated through all the use cases you mentioned successfully.
j45 2y ago
Separate devices for work and personal might help manage these use cases. Tools that help with managing digital health and screen use can help you slow down access to any problematic apps a bit more than others.
nox101 2y ago
it's a hard problem. I often open the phone to do something legit but then get distracted by a notificiation or unread count. maybe a better solution would be "why?" when you switch or launch apps. Then being able to select apps that don't cause the prompt like camera and bank apps
- w_for_wumbo 2y ago
  This is my problem in a work context. I know I'm distractable, yet for security reasons I have to have a distraction device which I have to pick up and use for signing into certain applications.
MiddleEndian 2y ago
>I installed this in the morning to give it a test drive, and after several hours, I learned the following: it's great when I reach for the phone as a distraction; it's a big annoyance otherwise. I have thought of a workaround. Instead of an app that asks "Why?", a sticker on your phone that asks "Why?" Or maybe just a question mark. I will order one for my phone.

ar_lan 2y ago

This sounds like a good case for an allowlist for certain applications - Camera, Spotify, Notes, etc.

echelon 2y ago

This is where an OS-based agent would help. If it semantically understood the tasks we're trying to accomplish, it could filter the cases we care about. I'm even more excited about browser or OS agents being able to unilaterally scrub the web of all advertisements, spam, polarized toxicity, etc. Forget adblock - I can effectively block all the bad things Google, Meta, Twitter, etc. do and their army of PMs won't be able to stop me. This tech is going to rip the advertiser and algorithmic madness out of the internet and make it serve me and only me.

hackernewds 2y ago
neither Apple or Google will ever develop this given that their core Business depends on users using their phones often
- Tistron 2y ago
  In what way does apple depend on users using their phones often? I am also hoping somebody would develop helpful agents like gp suggests
  - hackernewds 2y ago
    Apple takes a 30% cut? If gamers stop playing addictive games with microtransactions then they would lose quite a bit. Same with showing ads. Or everything else in their software section of revenue

bornfreddy 2y ago

Maybe the app should kick in only if you start using one of the "bad" apps, like a browser or a social network app? Being in the way when I want to snap a quick photo doesn't sound nice.

koevet 2y ago
For this use case, I use "IChooseTo" https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsofuse.ict https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.appsofuse....
- throwawayk7h 2y ago
  This looks like it's based on a timer, and prevents you from using the app if you use it for, say, too long. Is that right? I have legitimate longform uses of my browser app as well as bad ones.
jkukul 2y ago
I use iOS's built in Screen Time settings. For "bad" apps (Reddit, TikTok, etc) and "bad" websites ("hackernews", etc) I set a daily time limit of, let's say, 15 minutes. I configure a random password for Screen Time so that it's a real hassle to circumvent the daily limit when I get over it.
hackernewds 2y ago
this is 100% what I want, and I'd gladly pay $10/month for this
gen220 2y ago
What I did (helped me eventually delete them) was offload the "bad" apps on my phone so, if I wanted to access them, I'd have to wait for them to re-download. This is an iOS feature where the pointer to the app and the local data remains, but the app bundle itself is deleted. I think it's primary use case is to manage scarce disk space. It forced me to reckon with the fact that tapping on these apps is often a system 1 instinct. The forced delay to reinstall the app is an escape hatch into system 2 thinking, a mode in which I normally realize I don't even want to use the app, I'm just bored. And then I'd pick up a book or use my newspaper-reader-app (i.e. a more intent/system 2-driven choice). Off-loading apps or even just removing them from the home screen is really helpful. It gives your system 2 brain an opportunity to mutate your environment to make system 1 processes lead to more fruitful outcomes. For the same reason, I clear my browser history every month or so and avoid bookmarking certain sites like hn or reddit.

iandanforth 2y ago

Re: The photos case: I have the camera app bound to a double click of my power button. I find it to be incredibly useful to have a way to immediately open my camera and Intenty doesn't override that flow.

TeMPOraL 2y ago
Hah, I used to do that too, however I changed it so double-press of the side button toggles the flashlight instead. I find this to have much better ROI. For camera, turning the screen off while camera app is open means I can just press the power button and slide up, and I'm back in camera app (unless Intenty interferes). For flashlight, having a quick key (that works even when the phone is locked) is a qualitative change - I use the phone flashlight much more often, now that I can casually turn it on and off with zero effort, like a traditional torch. There are actually two major use cases I have for that daily: - In autumn/winter, by the time I pick my kids up from the kindergarten, it's already dark. There's a stretch of pavement that's pitch dark, so I just casually light it up as we walk over it. (That was the driver behind me changing the button mapping from camera to flashlight; having done that, I now instinctively turn the flashlight on and off as I walk, lighting up dark spots.) - Have you ever tried to read something from a phone while walking at night? It's a big problem - the screen pretty much blinds you, unless you turn the brightness down to minimum. You can't read and monitor ground under your feet at the same time. However, if you also turn on the flashlight, the brightness of the screen and the light reflecting off the ground are similar, so reading becomes comfortable and you regain awareness of terrain. I figured out that trick long ago, first with Kindle (Paperwhite) - I'd put my phone against the back of the Kindle, turn the backlight on the reader, and the flashlight on the phone. But it works even better for reading from the phone itself.

andai 2y ago

This is solved by having dedicated devices for camera and music player! (At least for these two examples, which are also my top non-distraction / non-social phone usage.) I don't have those yet but I wish I did! I was just thinking back to how cool the iPod was back in the day. (The one before touchscreens!) (I was also thinking how cool it would be if it had the iPod's UI but Rockbox's (and every other mp3 player in human history) support for just putting folders full of files on it... but I guess I'll keep dreaming!)

TeMPOraL 2y ago
That's fair. I miss MP3 players and even feature phones - all of them could be operated without looking at them! Alas, ever since Apple showed it's Courage™ by ditching the audio jack, Bluetooth headphones became ubiquitous (doubly so thanks to AirPods and alternatives). They're nice and all, but they also have mikes, so you want to use them for calling and voice messaging too, and then you can also put notifications on them, ... with Bluetooth device switching being what it is, this complements and reinforces smartphone's role as single device for everything. EDIT: I wonder if it's possible to have some kind of mixer wearable that would accept wireless audio streams (both in "music" and "headset" modes) from multiple devices, mix them together, and route to a single set of wireless headphones. That would solve a lot of the issues I have with wireless audio in practice.
ar_lan 2y ago
That is a solution, but not an ideal one for many (most?). One of the great innovations of the smartphone is that I have all 3 devices in one small form factor, so I don't need to carry/travel with the bulk of many.
cardanome 2y ago
I actually went full old-school and got an portable cd-player. This has the side effect of me listening to music more intentionally and not wasting time selecting tracks and skipping around. Listening to a full album is great, something I rarely did before. And physically owning music feels great. Sure, it is less practical for traveling but it mostly sits on my desk to help me get through work. And CD's having a fixed run length helps me to take breaks so my tinnitus does not get worse.

jarko27 2y ago

Thanks for giving it a test drive! I'm thinking also about adding an option to have like 50% chance of a popup or a 75% chance, so it's less predictable. I first made it as every 2nd, 3d and so on, but maybe adding a randomness to it will be better? WDYT?

TeMPOraL 2y ago
For my use case, randomness would make it even worse. For muscle memory, consistency is key. I don't know what the solution is - ideally, the app would not interrupt such quick actions like unlocking to take a photo or switch the song, but in practice, it can't exactly guess what I'm going to do before I do it. I was thinking about maybe "unlock and don't show the popup for the next 5 minutes", but then I already know that one of these days, I'll activate it for "one quick check of Instagram" (or HN), defeating the purpose of the application. Sorry I can't be more helpful. I've been mulling this problem (selective blocking in dual-purpose apps/sites) in my mind for a long time now, but I haven't found any solution so far.
- j1elo 2y ago
  Here's maybe a solution: don't trigger the app if the phone is unlocked via a hardware shortcut. At least in my last 2 phones, I got them configured such that a double press on the power button wakes the camera app immediately (great for quick photos), while the rest of the system is still locked (need the unlock pin when trying to navigate away from the camera app) So in that situation the app could choose not to interrupt.
  - bfdm 2y ago
    +1 I rely on this hardware shortcut heavily when trying to catch photos of the kids in fleeting moments. Edit: just tested this and the nudge does not appear to interrupt the camera quick access
    - j1elo 2y ago
      Fastest feature request implementation ever! :-)

lubujackson 2y ago

Better solution: add in increasing delay before opening a time waster, increasing 1 second between each open over the course of the day. Openning Reddit for the 15th time today? 15 second wait (or longer).

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

I already have an app that does this on Android (One Sec is the app) and it only inserts a "mindfulness break" for specific apps (e.g. Chrome and social media), and I came to the same conclusion you did. It's grind when I just mindlessly tap to open the browser to search for something random. Lots of times, though, the browser opens when I want to do something quickly, e.g. I get an email and I need to open something in the browser, and it becomes a big annoyance. After a while I just started subconsciously ignoring it, which I think defeats the purpose. It's a tough problem to solve - I want it to prevent me from doing "mindless scrolling", but not when I have an actual task to accomplish.

iterateoften 2y ago
Having work and leisure mixed on a device or service is a pain. I had tried to block Reddit but then I needed it when researching some programming stuff. Most conversations happen on Reddit these days so if you need to look something up for work to see what others are doing, chances are Google will give you Reddit links first especially if what you are searching for is relatively recent. What I found is that I developed a muscle memory for just ignoring the block and overriding it. Instead of allowing myself an override that so I could dismiss the block I had to just hard block all of Reddit by setting an PIN I immediately forgot and if I really need something I’ll use ChatGPT to summarize.
- esperent 2y ago
  > I had tried to block Reddit but then I needed it when researching some programming stuff I used to have this problem. But now I just use Claude to research any coding or similar stuff that I would have used reddit for. The quality is at least as good as reddit discussions. Now I've totally blocked reddit using NextDNS on my phone and laptop, and configured Kagi to not return any reddit search results.
canadianfella 2y ago
[dead]
james_david 2y ago

guptat59 2y ago

Screenzen (android) does exactly this and I navigated through all the use cases you mentioned successfully.

j45 2y ago

Separate devices for work and personal might help manage these use cases. Tools that help with managing digital health and screen use can help you slow down access to any problematic apps a bit more than others.

nox101 2y ago

it's a hard problem. I often open the phone to do something legit but then get distracted by a notificiation or unread count. maybe a better solution would be "why?" when you switch or launch apps. Then being able to select apps that don't cause the prompt like camera and bank apps

w_for_wumbo 2y ago
This is my problem in a work context. I know I'm distractable, yet for security reasons I have to have a distraction device which I have to pick up and use for signing into certain applications.

MiddleEndian 2y ago

>I installed this in the morning to give it a test drive, and after several hours, I learned the following: it's great when I reach for the phone as a distraction; it's a big annoyance otherwise. I have thought of a workaround. Instead of an app that asks "Why?", a sticker on your phone that asks "Why?" Or maybe just a question mark. I will order one for my phone.