4 ms·

The point I think was more a critique on the fact that everyone now tries to extract profit with everything, even the simplest of apps.

ltadeut 2y ago
why shouldn't they? they had to take the time to make the app and get it up on the App Store. it's totally fair to charge for work you've done. the fact it's simple is irrelevant. what matters is the value it brings to the user.
- matkv 2y ago
  It is totally fair to charge for work you've done - but then again, in my opinion, not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind (not talking about this app in particular now). I think it's really refreshing to find an app that doesn't lock any features behind a paywall or makes using it more cumbersome unless you pay. I'm mostly okay with one-time payments though. Just because you invested some time into making a project doesn't mean that you absolutely need to make some money to make it "worth" it. Hell, most open-source software is built on free/voluntary labor.
  - mavamaarten 2y ago
    I understand the sentiment from a user's perspective, I really do. I have been totally burned out by having to maintain all my free apps in the Play Store though, lately. Even a simple non-internet-using app needs an update every year and needs to comply with new bullshit policies every few months. It has totally changed my opinion on free vs paid apps. I still despise subscription models, but I absolutely understand that there's just no free apps out there anymore. It just costs too much of my time to keep doing it for free.
    - matkv 2y ago
      I've actually been talking about the developer's perspective as well - I have a couple of personal projects that I've invested quite a bit of time into but I still don't feel the need to try to find a way to monetize them. I can definitely see your point though. Maybe an option would be open sourcing your app? (considering it's already free anyway) - that way you could maybe find some contributors to make it easier to keep up with everything.
      - Apocryphon 2y ago
        [flagged]
        account42 2y ago
        Who are you to tell others what they are allowed to think and talk about?
        Apocryphon 2y ago
        By dint of not finger-wagging at others for not automatically making their projects FOSS.
      - mavamaarten 2y ago
        As much as I'm dependent on many open source projects (shout-out to Home Assistant, Immich and more), I've been burned by open sourcing my apps in the past too often to consider this for serious projects. Regardless of what license you use, people will find a way to abuse your stuff. One of the two apps I open sourced we're published on the play store with tons of ads, in many different flavours. The other was used as a base to scam people.
    - mongol 2y ago
      Agree. I had a free app with 100000 downloads, no ads and 4.5 rating on Play store, it is no longer there because I got fed up with Google's nagging. If I will do free things going forward, I will do them outside closed ecosystems.
      - throwaway290 2y ago
        It is economically better for google if your free app is gone and someone makes a paid app or an app with ads...
        Y_Y 2y ago
        Interesting point. I think that the availability of good free apps on Play Store has a positive effect on the market for Android phones in general. I know it factors into people's decision of phone religion that apps are more likely to charge on Apple's store (even sometimes for an app which is free on Android). All that said, F-droid is the only one I'll ever love.
    - jventura 2y ago
      Also agree, and would also include paid apps as well! I had a paid app which was a one time payment and was not doing anything special regarding permissions (no internet, nothing like that), but since it wasn't was bringing much revenue (some 3$-4$ per year), I let the Play Store remove it automatically. I couldn't justify adding the absurd data policies (since I wasn't using any user data) and the cost of updating it regularly. Sorry for my 100 users, that cannot reinstall the app anymore!
  - agubelu 2y ago
    > not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind (not talking about this app in particular now). I agree, and I make many projects for fun and find it rewarding when others use what I've built. But that is a decision that I make myself, for my own work. I never feel like I have the right to tell others whether they should build something with profit in mind or not.
    - matkv 2y ago
      I agree - it's definitely OP's decision and a valid one.
  - YetAnotherNick 2y ago
    > not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind You didn't say this earlier. You said this app doesn't need to be developed with profit in mind.
    - matkv 2y ago
      I'm not the same user as the parent comment.
akkad33 2y ago
It's time and effort. If you're not willing to pay you're saying it has no value. I prefer a small upfront fee to seeing in app purchases though
- robin_reala 2y ago
  That’s not true: not all value is monetary. The results of my hobby are distributed for free, but I gain value from the creation process for myself.
  - akkad33 2y ago
    Imagine someone less privileged than you tries to make a living this way. It's completely legitimate
MMAesawy 2y ago
How would you suggest to compensate devs for developing and maintaining such apps? Personally I would much prefer that developers lock poweruser features behind a paywall rather than plaster ugly ads all over the place. Making it a paid app works too, but likely 95% of the potential userbase would not try the app if they had to reach for their wallets first.
- Timwi 2y ago
  > How would you suggest to compensate devs for developing and maintaining such apps? As a developer, I feel more than sufficiently compensated by seeing people use and enjoy my work and thanking me. Getting featured on Hacker News would make my day; nay, year. I just need to be able to eat and use a computer. I shouldn't have to prove myself valuable just to be allowed to live. I think everybody, regardless of what they do, deserve a livable basic income.
- oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
  UBI. (I would leave the comment at that, but it would probably come across as a bit facetious and would fail any 'low-effort' test. But I genuinely mean it: remove the necessity to obtain a certain amount of money every month, and all of a sudden, people would be able to create, share, and enjoy for free.
cowsandmilk 2y ago
The point is, everyone believes all apps should be free when this developer spent time building, testing, and iterating to come out with quite the useful app. And the developer respects users, so they chose to monetize in a way that doesn’t collect our data or shove ads in our faces.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  The first thing OP says is "Cool idea - don't deserve to get paid for it though".
  - Y_Y 2y ago
    I think you'll find that's not quite true.
endorphine 2y ago
Critiquing the players and not the game misses the forest for the trees. This is the system we live in.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  You're allowed to critique both. "The system" isn't handed down from god. It's just a set of choices made by people.
  - Timwi 2y ago
    Yes, and one of those choices made by people is that if you don't make money, you deserve to starve.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

ltadeut 2y ago

why shouldn't they? they had to take the time to make the app and get it up on the App Store. it's totally fair to charge for work you've done. the fact it's simple is irrelevant. what matters is the value it brings to the user.

matkv 2y ago
It is totally fair to charge for work you've done - but then again, in my opinion, not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind (not talking about this app in particular now). I think it's really refreshing to find an app that doesn't lock any features behind a paywall or makes using it more cumbersome unless you pay. I'm mostly okay with one-time payments though. Just because you invested some time into making a project doesn't mean that you absolutely need to make some money to make it "worth" it. Hell, most open-source software is built on free/voluntary labor.
- mavamaarten 2y ago
  I understand the sentiment from a user's perspective, I really do. I have been totally burned out by having to maintain all my free apps in the Play Store though, lately. Even a simple non-internet-using app needs an update every year and needs to comply with new bullshit policies every few months. It has totally changed my opinion on free vs paid apps. I still despise subscription models, but I absolutely understand that there's just no free apps out there anymore. It just costs too much of my time to keep doing it for free.
  - matkv 2y ago
    I've actually been talking about the developer's perspective as well - I have a couple of personal projects that I've invested quite a bit of time into but I still don't feel the need to try to find a way to monetize them. I can definitely see your point though. Maybe an option would be open sourcing your app? (considering it's already free anyway) - that way you could maybe find some contributors to make it easier to keep up with everything.
    - Apocryphon 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - account42 2y ago
        Who are you to tell others what they are allowed to think and talk about?
        Apocryphon 2y ago
        By dint of not finger-wagging at others for not automatically making their projects FOSS.
    - mavamaarten 2y ago
      As much as I'm dependent on many open source projects (shout-out to Home Assistant, Immich and more), I've been burned by open sourcing my apps in the past too often to consider this for serious projects. Regardless of what license you use, people will find a way to abuse your stuff. One of the two apps I open sourced we're published on the play store with tons of ads, in many different flavours. The other was used as a base to scam people.
  - mongol 2y ago
    Agree. I had a free app with 100000 downloads, no ads and 4.5 rating on Play store, it is no longer there because I got fed up with Google's nagging. If I will do free things going forward, I will do them outside closed ecosystems.
    - throwaway290 2y ago
      It is economically better for google if your free app is gone and someone makes a paid app or an app with ads...
      - Y_Y 2y ago
        Interesting point. I think that the availability of good free apps on Play Store has a positive effect on the market for Android phones in general. I know it factors into people's decision of phone religion that apps are more likely to charge on Apple's store (even sometimes for an app which is free on Android). All that said, F-droid is the only one I'll ever love.
  - jventura 2y ago
    Also agree, and would also include paid apps as well! I had a paid app which was a one time payment and was not doing anything special regarding permissions (no internet, nothing like that), but since it wasn't was bringing much revenue (some 3$-4$ per year), I let the Play Store remove it automatically. I couldn't justify adding the absurd data policies (since I wasn't using any user data) and the cost of updating it regularly. Sorry for my 100 users, that cannot reinstall the app anymore!
- agubelu 2y ago
  > not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind (not talking about this app in particular now). I agree, and I make many projects for fun and find it rewarding when others use what I've built. But that is a decision that I make myself, for my own work. I never feel like I have the right to tell others whether they should build something with profit in mind or not.
  - matkv 2y ago
    I agree - it's definitely OP's decision and a valid one.
- YetAnotherNick 2y ago
  > not everything needs to be built with some profit in mind You didn't say this earlier. You said this app doesn't need to be developed with profit in mind.
  - matkv 2y ago
    I'm not the same user as the parent comment.

akkad33 2y ago

It's time and effort. If you're not willing to pay you're saying it has no value. I prefer a small upfront fee to seeing in app purchases though

robin_reala 2y ago
That’s not true: not all value is monetary. The results of my hobby are distributed for free, but I gain value from the creation process for myself.
- akkad33 2y ago
  Imagine someone less privileged than you tries to make a living this way. It's completely legitimate

MMAesawy 2y ago

How would you suggest to compensate devs for developing and maintaining such apps? Personally I would much prefer that developers lock poweruser features behind a paywall rather than plaster ugly ads all over the place. Making it a paid app works too, but likely 95% of the potential userbase would not try the app if they had to reach for their wallets first.

Timwi 2y ago
> How would you suggest to compensate devs for developing and maintaining such apps? As a developer, I feel more than sufficiently compensated by seeing people use and enjoy my work and thanking me. Getting featured on Hacker News would make my day; nay, year. I just need to be able to eat and use a computer. I shouldn't have to prove myself valuable just to be allowed to live. I think everybody, regardless of what they do, deserve a livable basic income.
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
UBI. (I would leave the comment at that, but it would probably come across as a bit facetious and would fail any 'low-effort' test. But I genuinely mean it: remove the necessity to obtain a certain amount of money every month, and all of a sudden, people would be able to create, share, and enjoy for free.

cowsandmilk 2y ago

The point is, everyone believes all apps should be free when this developer spent time building, testing, and iterating to come out with quite the useful app. And the developer respects users, so they chose to monetize in a way that doesn’t collect our data or shove ads in our faces.

madeofpalk 2y ago
The first thing OP says is "Cool idea - don't deserve to get paid for it though".
- Y_Y 2y ago
  I think you'll find that's not quite true.

endorphine 2y ago

Critiquing the players and not the game misses the forest for the trees. This is the system we live in.

ryandrake 2y ago
You're allowed to critique both. "The system" isn't handed down from god. It's just a set of choices made by people.
- Timwi 2y ago
  Yes, and one of those choices made by people is that if you don't make money, you deserve to starve.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]