7 ms·
Raspberry Pi CM5 is a faster, drop-in upgrade
- Mashimo 2y ago> It boots up in seconds, > 23 seconds until ssh login Well ok, technically correct, but I expected faster when I read that.
- diggan 2y agoI'm guessing that's with whatever stock software/firmware stack Raspberry PI themselves ship, surely can be made a lot faster by not having to probe various hardware ports you know aren't used, for example.
- Mashimo 2y agoYes, but you could do that with most devices running linux.
- rcarmo 2y agoJust pruning a bunch of systemd units will get you to half that time.
- geerlingguy 2y agoI didn't have it complete in time, but you can use pi-gen-micro from Raspberry Pi (it's a newer project) to build a very lightweight boot image now, on the order of a yocto/buildroot image, but with Pi OS as the base.
- nxobject 2y agoMilliseconds, even!
- voidUpdate 2y agoDoes anyone have any recommendations for a CM carrier board that has ethernet and ~4 sata ports that I can attach external drives to? I'd quite like to build my own NAS but I don't know what board to use
- oynqr 2y agoOdroid H4+. Four SATA ports, 2x 2.5gig Ethernet, IBECC. Not a compute module/carrier board combination though. Also x86_64.
- voidUpdate 2y agoYeah, I've been considering just going for an x86 thing, though finding a mini pc with 4 satas might be tough, and there's the whole raspi ecosystem that would help with troubleshooting. I'll add that to the potential list though =)
- rvense 2y agoIf you go with x86 you've got a bunch of people doing it under the "homelab" banner, so you'll hardly be alone.
- babarjaana 2y agoThe easiest way might be getting an ITX board with N100/150 from CWWK or Topton. They usually come with 4-6 SATA ports and the CPU soldered on. Then you just buy your favorite case and plug in your drives. Excluding the cost of the drives you might end up spending about $250, depending on your case and PSU selection. The problem with using SBCs or mini PCs that way is that you need an enclosure to hold, power, and cool down your disks, and even that is assuming that you can actually connect them via a SATA/SAS connection which may not be easily available from within your case.
- sorenjan 2y agoCheck out Hardware Haven on Youtube, he tests a bunch of different small form factor NAS computers and similar. I find the whole "raspi ecosystem" a bit overrated, for the most part it's Linux you're working with regardless of hardware.
- geerlingguy 2y agoThe best one for that (IMHO, though I should note this company sent me one to test, and it's been running my NVR for months now) is the Axzez Interceptor: https://www.axzez.com/product-page/interceptor-carrier-board https://www.axzez.com/product-page/interceptor-carrier-board It's purpose-built for that, and they even have a rackmount chassis for it, though you could design your own too. Power for the drives requires a separate power supply though. The other option right now is the Radxa Taco (https://radxa.com/products/io-board/taco/ https://radxa.com/products/io-board/taco/), but availability has been scarce. I've ordered one and will hopefully test it again soon, with the CM5! (That is, if you're wanting to go down the Pi NAS route—there are certainly other options out there!)
- fxj 2y agoTHe Raspi CM is also used in some synthesizers like the Korg Wavestate or the Ableton Move.
- exitb 2y agoAre they implemented on bare metal, or is modern synthesiser just a regular computer with a keyboard attached?
- frabert 2y agoThe Korg Kronos (and I suppose the Nautilus as well) are just regular x86 PCs (I believe using Atom CPUs) running a custom Linux kernel and custom software
- Tepix 2y agoThat's super interesting! Has anyone managed to dump the firmware? :-)
- frabert 2y agoYou can probably ask the one who did the most reverse-engineering :) https://marcan.st/2016/06/hacking-and-upgrading-the-korg-kronos/ https://marcan.st/2016/06/hacking-and-upgrading-the-korg-kro... As far as I can tell, there's no custom "firmware" to speak of, it's a patched Linux kernel running a kernelmode audio synthesis engine and a usermode app for the UI
- fxj 2y agoThe Ableton Move is just a CM4 with linux (abletonos) running and using a SD-Card in the box. https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/comments/1fzd9ln/move_is_a_raspberry_pi_module_4/ https://www.reddit.com/r/ableton/comments/1fzd9ln/move_is_a_...
- qwerty456127 2y agoDoes it still only encode to H.264, no HEVC/AV1?
- geerlingguy 2y agoTechnically the BCM2712 doesn't have any hardware encode support, only software/CPU. It includes an H.265 (up to 4K 60 fps) hardware decode block—I tested that, and it works fine—but no other video hardware encode/decode, unfortunately. The CPU is good enough for up to H.264 1080p encode at least, and with some tweaking could get a 4K stream or multiple HD streams encoded... but it's not ideal for that use case.
- jamesy0ung 2y agoI wonder how the USB 3 works, considering it is drop in compatible with the CM4 which only had USB 2.
- micw 2y agoI guess "mostly" refers to the "drop-in upgrade", not to the 2-3x faster. The pinout has been modified slightly, so it's not 100% compatible.
- jamesy0ung 2y agoYeah I wasn't too sure about the compatibility, but JG mentioned he was able to just pop it in his NEC Display and it was shown in a blade carrier.
- micw 2y agoDoes anyone know if it's a good idea to base a product on Pi CM4/5 (or has experience with this)? I wonder how the availability any price in large quantities is (like 10k per year) and how reliable the connector is in comparison to a soldered SOM.
- pyb 2y agoEven if it were reliably available in such quantities, I'm not sure Pi's pricing would make sense in the context of any mass produced product.
- pyb 2y agoThere are apparently products based on the CM (Ableton Move?), not sure how they sell these at a profit.
- Joel_Mckay 2y agoDesign for Manufacturability paradigms sometimes generate odd choices that only make sense in certain use-cases. When scaling up to over 50k pcs/month the incremental costs do get ugly fast. However, for many of the same reasons a 3k USD PLC makes sense in many low volume long-tale market applications (i.e. pre-certified and stamped hardware.) Best of luck, =3
- hobofan 2y agoThe Formlabs Form 4 uses a CM AFAIK and at a 4-5k price point it's not hard to see how they sell them at a profit.
- awjlogan 2y agoThey are available in that quantity. They do make sense up to around that number, although the around 1K is the sweet spot. Laying out and certifying a high speed design (not just a noddy A9 with DDR2) is expensive and it's all NRE cost. The cost of the components for the CM is driven down by the combined volume significantly - if you want to buy 1-10K of those by yourself, you will pay a premium over what RasPi gets them for. You might not need a full 6/8 layer board for the whole product as well. As important, the software support is great as it's just a standard RasPi - you don't have to support your own custom image.
- Carrentt 2y agoPretty wild to see a drop-in replacement that's actually faster - usually that's marketing speak for "technically compatible but slower in real life." The fact that you can just pop this into existing CM4 hardware and get 2-3x performance is impressive. Finally, my commercial display can run Crysis! (Ok, maybe not, but that USB 3 upgrade is sweet). Though I have to laugh at the "good news everyone, it's the same price!" followed immediately by "...for the 8GB version only, everything else costs more." Classic Pi Foundation pricing gymnastics. At least we're not dealing with scalpers asking $200 for a CM4 anymore. The silkscreen specs on top is such a simple but brilliant addition. No more squinting at tiny chips trying to figure out which module is which in your parts drawer.
- creesch 2y ago> Finally, my commercial display can run Crysis! (Ok, maybe not, but that USB 3 upgrade is sweet). It actually can! .... if you also plug in a GPU. https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2024/amd-radeon-pro-w7700-running-on-raspberry-pi https://www.jeffgeerling.com/blog/2024/amd-radeon-pro-w7700-...
- benj111 2y ago>Classic Pi Foundation pricing gymnastics To be fair, theyve dropped the 1GB model, so do you want to compare old and new lowest specs? I don't know about relative sales figures, I infer that 8GB is expected to be the default going forward.
- esskay 2y agoThing is once you start looking outside of the base model it becomes a bit less of a good offering when there are others making compatible boards that are arguably better specced. The only issue of course is some whilst sharing the same formfactor and connector aren't always compatible with the same hardware. If I recall correctly the Radxa CM3's for example are fully compatible.
- benj111 2y agoRpis proposition has always been support rather than value per se. If you want cheaper, yes there are other options. If you want something where a mainline kernel will work, and has a community, Pis are a much better choice.
- rekoil 2y agoThis feels like a good place to ask this. Has anyone who sees this attempted to run Home Assistant OS in a Home Assistant Yellow "compute module board" using a Radxa CM5? It's tempting to me because the Radxa CM5 uses a mainline kernel instead of the Broadcom-modified kernel the RPi CM4 uses, but I understand that there may be some level of work needed to be done to support the compute module + board combo, and I'm curious if that is true for the Radxa CM5 + Yellow board combo. Or have I misunderstood anything?
- tecleandor 2y agoI was tempted to do something similar when I got my Yellow because the low availability of the CM4s back then, but it seemed that, at least with older Radxas there were problems with kernels or compatibility. It might work with the newer one if you say it's mainline kernel but haven't found anything in the forum in quick search...
- rekoil 2y agoI am keen to try. But I'm even more keen for someone else to tell me they have tried it and the result of said test because I am not keen on my home automation system being down for a longer period of time...
- dividuum 2y agoThere is no "Broadcom-modified kernel". There's a fork with changes needed to support all Pi hardware at https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux https://github.com/raspberrypi/linux. Unlike some boards were you're eternally stuck at old versions, the fork is actively maintained (currently mostly at 6.6, soon 6.12) with its changes regularly getting upstreamed. You post make it sound like the Pi kernel is a mess, which it is absolutely not.
- zokier 2y ago> There is no "Broadcom-modified kernel". There's a fork with changes needed to support all Pi hardware That's literally the same thing
- babarjaana 2y agoLooks like the Radxa CM5 is still significantly faster than Pi CM5, while only being slightly more expensive (113USD vs 95USD for the 8GB/64GB model from what I could find). Anyone here has any experience with it?
- Narishma 2y agoAs the article says, you pay for that with a lack of support compared to the Raspberry Pi.
- DanielHB 2y agoI got a raspberry 4 recently and was tinkering with it. I was appalled at the apparent disk IO performance of the thing, opening a browser takes several seconds. Is that just me or do I have a particularly crappy SD card? Anyone got any tips on how to improve disk IO? Would a USB3 external drive help with this?
- antihero 2y agoPerhaps the M.2 HAT+ and a decent SSD? USB3 could plausibly be faster than the SD card as the spec allows for 5Gbps+ but I don't know about Pis that much, I'd defer to someone with experience. As a photographer I can tell you that SD cards, even high class ones have laughably awful speeds - any proper camera that needs to do video will use CFexpress Type B cards which are tremendously faster.
- wrboyce 2y agoProper cameras use film ;) Seriously though, there are plenty of top-end cameras that use SD cards (all Nikons, for example). EDIT: completely missed that you said video, ignore me!
- jsheard 2y ago> Perhaps the M.2 HAT+ and a decent SSD? That won't help OPs Pi4, the PCIe interface is new on the Pi5. USB is the best you can do on the older ones.
- henearkr 2y agoI know it should theoretically work, but has anyone already tried to replace the CM4 of a HomeAssistant Yellow by the RPi CM4?
- newsclues 2y agohttps://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2024/11/27/home-assistant-yellow-gets-cm5-support/ https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2024/11/27/home-assistant... Thanks to Raspberry Pi providing us with an early sample, we have been able to add Compute Module 5 (CM5) compatibility to the Home Assistant Yellow
- henearkr 2y agoWow!! Those are really great news, thank you!
- Jedd 2y agoI'm really torn as to whether 'smaller than a credit card' (when something is clearly much, much larger than a credit card), or re-purposing a previously well understood and generally agreed upon definition of 'artificial intelligence' to now mean a frequently wrong or bewildered statistical / language model, annoys me the most.
- diggan 2y ago> when something is clearly much, much larger than a credit card Is it? Too me it seems smaller both in width and depth, but the height seems some mm or more than a typical credit card.
- HankB99 2y agoI suspect that OP is describing the official IO Board which is a lot bigger than a credit card. There are carriers that are smaller than a credit card such as the Ether Board and Wavlink BiCool mini board.
- ianburrell 2y agoCredit cards are bigger than you think. The CM5 is smaller (55mm x 40mm) than credit card (85mm x 54mm). You could almost get two on one credit card. I always thought it was deceptive to compare regular Pi to credit card. But I just checked and credit card is almost the same size as regular Pi.
- bmicraft 2y agoYou're forgetting the third dimension, which comes in at 4.7mm. That indeed makes the CM5 much larger at multiple times the volume - if you want to be pedantic that is.
- Tepix 2y agoSounds pretty sweet. The Raspberry is now firmly inside a price territory where it has a lot of Intel/AMD rivals. The Raspberry Pi Zero for $5 was never widely available. I'd love to see something in that price range that is actually available to buy. Hopefully also with low power requirements like the original Pi Zero.
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- bmicraft 2y agoThe Zero 2W has much better availability and at $15 it should still be cheap enough to essentially be a no-brainer if specs fit your needs.
- Tepix 2y agoIt's 3x the price of the $5 Pi Zero, you could argue it's not even in the same ballpark.
- bmicraft 2y agoWhile that's true, you're also getting much more for that: 4x Cores + WiFi + Bluetooth. The 2W is slow but usable compared to the original, which really wasn't. The original $5 can't even be matched by most ESP32 dev boards. I suspect they sold the original either at a loss and/or just to get rid of excess inventory of that original Broadcom SoC - which is also why it was a hard-to-get limited run.
- Havoc 2y ago> That's another CM5, this one being made by Radxa. It uses a Rockchip RK3588S2 Would rather go for this. The NPU on the 3588 are now starting to be usable for stuff like basic LLMs Unsure about the S2 variant though
- palata 2y agoI am a bit confused because I had read that the RPi5 had dropped hardware acceleration for video encoding. Is that wrong? Because that wouldn't be a faster, drop-in upgrade, right?
- rcarmo 2y agoApparently the new ARM cores can do decoding faster than the Pi 4's hardware decoder. But no encoding, in fact.
- afavour 2y agoDepends if you’re encoding video or not, surely?
- ZiiS 2y agoIt isn't strictly a dropin but it is usually a great upgrade. If you have the power then video encoding is faster and higher quality on the RPi5. If you are battery constrained then it can certainly be worse.
- zamadatix 2y agoThe Pi 4 encoder was in hardware but that doesn't imply it was ever actually particularly fast. I'd bet the Pi 5 CPU+RAM improvements are enough to beat the hardware encoder of the Pi 4 and still have enough CPU leftover to beat the Pi 4 CPU unloaded.
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- thenickdude 2y agoOnly two total MIPI ports (DSI/CSI, for displays and cameras respectively) compared to 4 ports on the CM4.
- tasn 2y agoThe Raspberry Pi is one of the only random gadget purchases that I've made over the years that found their way to the back of the drawer, then found their way out, back to the drawer, and out again. It's a really useful general purpose tool. It's currently running at my parents' place as a VPN server to let them access their smart home and cameras from outside the house (I didn't let them expose these to the internet).
- teleforce 2y agoThis CM5 is at least as powerful as laptop CPU from ten years back I'm really surprised nobody one is coming up with upgradable laptop platform or shell powered by RPi compute module. Couple with the available maximum 16 GB with ECC available with CM5 this can be a winner since laptop RAM capacity has been stagnant for around ten years now [1]. [1] Why do laptops have so little RAM? (2015): https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42234501 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42234501
- bufferoverflow 2y agoThere are Pi-based laptops (Pi-Top, CrowPi), but it's very hard to compete with used laptops. And not many people like ARM-based OSes (which is usually Linux or the awful version of Windows).