7 ms·

Apple should be required to do a recall for these motherboards.

wetpaws 2y ago
For 1993 hardware?
toast0 2y ago
If they do a recall, it will say they should be discarded. Sony has a recall on all its trinitron tvs made before the end of 1990 like this: https://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/information/notice_100610_en.html https://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/infor...
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  This shouldn't be allowed at all: if the product was bad all along, they should be required to fix it, and shouldn't be able to say "well, it's old, so you should just trash it", which means they don't suffer any penalty whatsoever.
  - duskwuff 2y ago
    I don't think that's a reasonable expectation in general, and certainly not in this case. The affected TVs were all at least 20 years old - that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these. Nor is it clear what Sony could reasonably have done to repair them; even by 2010, a lot of the parts used in CRT TVs were out of production and unavailable.
    - shiroiushi 2y ago
      Maybe you're too young to remember, but people used to keep TVs for much longer periods before HDTV and flat panels came out. Also, these TVs are apparently fire hazards. It doesn't matter that they're 20 years old (at the point of the "recall" in 2010). I doubt the parts necessary to fix them were out of production; you can get parts for truly ancient electronics still. Things like capacitors don't become obsolete. The recall doesn't specify exactly which component is problematic, but says it's age-related, which usually points to capacitors.
      - tobr 2y ago
        This. I’ve known a TV that was in more or less daily use for over 30 years. Not sure why we stopped expecting that from electronics.
        eru 2y ago
        Because electronics got so much better so much faster, that the vast majority of customers did not want to use old hardware. Especially if customers allowing shorter lifetimes allowed companies to lower the prices.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. Moreover, we're talking about televisions and old Macs. TVs with higher resolutions might come out, but lower resolution ones continue to be sold new (implying demand exists at some price), and then why should anybody want to replace a functioning old TV with a newer one of the same resolution? Much older computers continue to be used because they run software that newer computers can't without emulation (which often introduces bugs) or have older physical interfaces compatible with other and often extremely expensive older hardware. If people actually wanted to replace their hardware instead of fixing it then they'd not be complaining about the inability to fix it.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        >There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. It depends. Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. You're probably better off getting a RasPi or something, depending on what exactly you're trying to do. Newer systems have gotten much better with energy efficiency, so they'll pay for themselves quickly through lower electricity bills. >TVs with higher resolutions might come out, but lower resolution ones continue to be sold new (implying demand exists at some price) We're already seeing a limit here. 8k TVs are here now, but not very popular. There's almost no media in that resolution, and people can't tell the difference from 4k. For a while, this wasn't the case: people were upgrading from 480 to 720 to 1080 and now to 4k. >and then why should anybody want to replace a functioning old TV with a newer one of the same resolution? They probably don't; if they're upgrading, they're getting a higher resolution (lots of 1080 screens still out there), or they're getting a bigger screen. It's possible they might want newer smart TV features too: older sets probably have support dropped and don't support the latest streaming services, though usually you can just get an add-on device that plugs into the HDMI port so this is probably less of a factor.
    - kbelder 2y ago
      > that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these A modern TV may have an expected lifespan of five years. TVs from several decades ago had lifespans of... several decades. Quality has plummeted in that market.
      - eru 2y ago
        Only one metric of 'quality' has plummeted. A rock lasts billions of years, but its quality as a TV is rather questionable.
      - azinman2 2y ago
        5 years? Is that really true? I’m currently using an LG from 2017 and cannot imagine needing to change it. I would be shocked if it stopped working.
        tverbeure 2y ago
        I don't think it is true at all. There's nothing inside today's monitors or TVs that can't run for at least 10 years. Our main TV, 42" 720p LCD, is from 2008, and I have monitors that are just as old.
        Supernaut 2y ago
        Yep. My TV, a 42" Panasonic plasma, dates from 2009 and is still working perfectly. I haven't replaced it, because why would I?
        rvense 2y ago
        But when it does, it will probably be the capacitors in the power supply that have dried out.
        verzali 2y ago
        Is that really the case? Because if so, it seems like simply replacing the capacitors would save a lot of waste and unnecessary purchases of new TVs...
    - bee_rider 2y ago
      It is a legitimate business decision, to sell things that last less than 20 years. Fine, I think it is lame, but it is their choice. But, we shouldn’t let companies get away with selling products that catch fire after working fine for 20 years.
    - InsideOutSanta 2y ago
      "that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these" People still run these Trinitron TVs to this day.
    - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
      > that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV What? That's nuts. Why bother buying a tv if you're immediately going to throw it in the trash
  - tengbretson 2y ago
    My radial arm saw ended up getting a product recall for simply being too difficult for the average consumer to use safely. The "recall" amounted to them sending you instructions to cut off a critical power cord and mail it in to them, and they send you a $50 check.
  - bigstrat2003 2y ago
    That is completely unreasonable. Companies can't be expected to take in and repair devices that old.
Throw8394045 2y ago
They don't do recalls even on modern hardware. But soldering hacks are no longer possible, all parts are serialized. Louis Rossmann made many videos on this.
- shiroiushi 2y ago
  What are you talking about? Capacitor technology hasn't changed substantially in decades, and it's just as possible to change caps with a soldering iron now as it was 20 years ago. I have no idea what you mean by "serialized".
  - fragmede 2y ago
    not capacitors, but more advanced components, like the camera, have serial numbers embedded in them, and the serial number needs to match, otherwise it won't accept the component. Components off a stolen device are put on a list and won't work in admirer another phone, so stolen phones aren't even worth anything for parts, driving down the market for stolen phones. It also makes the job of repair shops harder, which is collateral damage in Apple's eyes, but is very much material for anyone running a repair shop.
    - pkolaczk 2y ago
      Doesn’t Apple offer a way to re-pair components if they are genuine and not stolen (unregistered from the previous AppleId)?
      - fragmede 2y ago
        and Apple will very happily charge you for that privilege
        jajko 2y ago
        TBH for such a critical piece of our modern lives, I would be more than fine to pay extra to be 100% sure I am getting original parts, put in professionally and in secure manner re my personal data. I wish ie Samsung had such service where I live. We anyway talk about expensive premium phones to start with, so relatively expensive after-warranty service is not shocking. This may actually eventually sway me into apple camp. This and what seems like much better theft discouragement.

For 1993 hardware?

If they do a recall, it will say they should be discarded. Sony has a recall on all its trinitron tvs made before the end of 1990 like this: https://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/information/notice_100610_en.html https://www.sony.jp/products/overseas/contents/support/infor...

shiroiushi 2y ago
This shouldn't be allowed at all: if the product was bad all along, they should be required to fix it, and shouldn't be able to say "well, it's old, so you should just trash it", which means they don't suffer any penalty whatsoever.
- duskwuff 2y ago
  I don't think that's a reasonable expectation in general, and certainly not in this case. The affected TVs were all at least 20 years old - that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these. Nor is it clear what Sony could reasonably have done to repair them; even by 2010, a lot of the parts used in CRT TVs were out of production and unavailable.
  - shiroiushi 2y ago
    Maybe you're too young to remember, but people used to keep TVs for much longer periods before HDTV and flat panels came out. Also, these TVs are apparently fire hazards. It doesn't matter that they're 20 years old (at the point of the "recall" in 2010). I doubt the parts necessary to fix them were out of production; you can get parts for truly ancient electronics still. Things like capacitors don't become obsolete. The recall doesn't specify exactly which component is problematic, but says it's age-related, which usually points to capacitors.
    - tobr 2y ago
      This. I’ve known a TV that was in more or less daily use for over 30 years. Not sure why we stopped expecting that from electronics.
      - eru 2y ago
        Because electronics got so much better so much faster, that the vast majority of customers did not want to use old hardware. Especially if customers allowing shorter lifetimes allowed companies to lower the prices.
        AnthonyMouse 2y ago
        There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. Moreover, we're talking about televisions and old Macs. TVs with higher resolutions might come out, but lower resolution ones continue to be sold new (implying demand exists at some price), and then why should anybody want to replace a functioning old TV with a newer one of the same resolution? Much older computers continue to be used because they run software that newer computers can't without emulation (which often introduces bugs) or have older physical interfaces compatible with other and often extremely expensive older hardware. If people actually wanted to replace their hardware instead of fixing it then they'd not be complaining about the inability to fix it.
        shiroiushi 2y ago
        >There are many use cases for which a decade-old computer is still perfectly serviceable and even where they aren't, those computers can be repurposed for the ones that are. It depends. Older computers usually guzzle power, especially if you look at the absolutely awful Pentium4 systems. You're probably better off getting a RasPi or something, depending on what exactly you're trying to do. Newer systems have gotten much better with energy efficiency, so they'll pay for themselves quickly through lower electricity bills. >TVs with higher resolutions might come out, but lower resolution ones continue to be sold new (implying demand exists at some price) We're already seeing a limit here. 8k TVs are here now, but not very popular. There's almost no media in that resolution, and people can't tell the difference from 4k. For a while, this wasn't the case: people were upgrading from 480 to 720 to 1080 and now to 4k. >and then why should anybody want to replace a functioning old TV with a newer one of the same resolution? They probably don't; if they're upgrading, they're getting a higher resolution (lots of 1080 screens still out there), or they're getting a bigger screen. It's possible they might want newer smart TV features too: older sets probably have support dropped and don't support the latest streaming services, though usually you can just get an add-on device that plugs into the HDMI port so this is probably less of a factor.
  - kbelder 2y ago
    > that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these A modern TV may have an expected lifespan of five years. TVs from several decades ago had lifespans of... several decades. Quality has plummeted in that market.
    - eru 2y ago
      Only one metric of 'quality' has plummeted. A rock lasts billions of years, but its quality as a TV is rather questionable.
    - azinman2 2y ago
      5 years? Is that really true? I’m currently using an LG from 2017 and cannot imagine needing to change it. I would be shocked if it stopped working.
      - tverbeure 2y ago
        I don't think it is true at all. There's nothing inside today's monitors or TVs that can't run for at least 10 years. Our main TV, 42" 720p LCD, is from 2008, and I have monitors that are just as old.
        Supernaut 2y ago
        Yep. My TV, a 42" Panasonic plasma, dates from 2009 and is still working perfectly. I haven't replaced it, because why would I?
      - rvense 2y ago
        But when it does, it will probably be the capacitors in the power supply that have dried out.
        verzali 2y ago
        Is that really the case? Because if so, it seems like simply replacing the capacitors would save a lot of waste and unnecessary purchases of new TVs...
  - bee_rider 2y ago
    It is a legitimate business decision, to sell things that last less than 20 years. Fine, I think it is lame, but it is their choice. But, we shouldn’t let companies get away with selling products that catch fire after working fine for 20 years.
  - InsideOutSanta 2y ago
    "that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV, let alone an older model like these" People still run these Trinitron TVs to this day.
  - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
    > that's well beyond the expected useful lifespan of even a modern TV What? That's nuts. Why bother buying a tv if you're immediately going to throw it in the trash
- tengbretson 2y ago
  My radial arm saw ended up getting a product recall for simply being too difficult for the average consumer to use safely. The "recall" amounted to them sending you instructions to cut off a critical power cord and mail it in to them, and they send you a $50 check.
- bigstrat2003 2y ago
  That is completely unreasonable. Companies can't be expected to take in and repair devices that old.

Throw8394045 2y ago

They don't do recalls even on modern hardware. But soldering hacks are no longer possible, all parts are serialized. Louis Rossmann made many videos on this.

shiroiushi 2y ago
What are you talking about? Capacitor technology hasn't changed substantially in decades, and it's just as possible to change caps with a soldering iron now as it was 20 years ago. I have no idea what you mean by "serialized".
- fragmede 2y ago
  not capacitors, but more advanced components, like the camera, have serial numbers embedded in them, and the serial number needs to match, otherwise it won't accept the component. Components off a stolen device are put on a list and won't work in admirer another phone, so stolen phones aren't even worth anything for parts, driving down the market for stolen phones. It also makes the job of repair shops harder, which is collateral damage in Apple's eyes, but is very much material for anyone running a repair shop.
  - pkolaczk 2y ago
    Doesn’t Apple offer a way to re-pair components if they are genuine and not stolen (unregistered from the previous AppleId)?
    - fragmede 2y ago
      and Apple will very happily charge you for that privilege
      - jajko 2y ago
        TBH for such a critical piece of our modern lives, I would be more than fine to pay extra to be 100% sure I am getting original parts, put in professionally and in secure manner re my personal data. I wish ie Samsung had such service where I live. We anyway talk about expensive premium phones to start with, so relatively expensive after-warranty service is not shocking. This may actually eventually sway me into apple camp. This and what seems like much better theft discouragement.