5 ms·

> It's ultimately form over function in this case Doesn't "form over function" mean the opposite of your usage? Form = appearance Function = usefulness

garciansmith 2y ago
Yes, I just reversed it by mistake!
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
I took this to mean that critiquing appearance is itself form over function.
- tantalor 2y ago
  Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
  - phil21 2y ago
    iPod was famously both though? The click-wheel was pretty unique and worked great to make an accessible UIx for the masses. It may have been somewhat limiting in edge cases, but for normal usage I don't recall anyone complaining about it outside of hardcore tech circles.
    - tantalor 2y ago
      "No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame" Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. The click wheel was cool.
      - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        > Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device. Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
      - VogonPoetry 2y ago
        I think that making the iPod mount like a filesystem would have had significant impact on other aspects of the device. There is no filesystem level abstraction over USB (or Firewire). So plugging in presents as a hard drive / block device, which then means it needs to have a filesystem. For "built-in" cross OS compatibility that means it would be have to be a FAT filesystem. If you change these decisions either a new filesystem or device driver would need to be installed for some machines. Most devices that present a FAT filesystem when plugged in stop working like they do when unplugged. i.e. the device itself and the connected computer cannot access the data at the same time. For the iPod this would mean it wouldn't be possible to play music while syncing. I think it might be possible to build a "fake" drive and FAT filesystem when plugged in, but it would take quite a bit of work and have lots of odd corner cases. For example, the user on the computer attempting to re-format the drive, perhaps with a different filesystem.
        mulmen 2y ago
        Ok but the iPod could literally act as external storage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod > Some versions of the iPod can serve as external data storage devices, like other digital music players. Prior to macOS 10.15, Apple's iTunes software (and other alternative software) could be used to transfer music, photos, videos, games, contact information, e-mail settings, Web bookmarks, and calendars to the devices supporting these features from computers using certain versions of Apple macOS and Microsoft Windows operating systems.
  - bdavbdav 2y ago
    I’m not convinced the iPod was. Everything else was pretty terrible at that time. The iPod did it right (and arguably still does)
jackcosgrove 2y ago
I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.

garciansmith 2y ago

Yes, I just reversed it by mistake!

PittleyDunkin 2y ago

I took this to mean that critiquing appearance is itself form over function.

tantalor 2y ago
Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
- phil21 2y ago
  iPod was famously both though? The click-wheel was pretty unique and worked great to make an accessible UIx for the masses. It may have been somewhat limiting in edge cases, but for normal usage I don't recall anyone complaining about it outside of hardcore tech circles.
  - tantalor 2y ago
    "No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame" Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. The click wheel was cool.
    - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
      > Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device. Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
    - VogonPoetry 2y ago
      I think that making the iPod mount like a filesystem would have had significant impact on other aspects of the device. There is no filesystem level abstraction over USB (or Firewire). So plugging in presents as a hard drive / block device, which then means it needs to have a filesystem. For "built-in" cross OS compatibility that means it would be have to be a FAT filesystem. If you change these decisions either a new filesystem or device driver would need to be installed for some machines. Most devices that present a FAT filesystem when plugged in stop working like they do when unplugged. i.e. the device itself and the connected computer cannot access the data at the same time. For the iPod this would mean it wouldn't be possible to play music while syncing. I think it might be possible to build a "fake" drive and FAT filesystem when plugged in, but it would take quite a bit of work and have lots of odd corner cases. For example, the user on the computer attempting to re-format the drive, perhaps with a different filesystem.
      - mulmen 2y ago
        Ok but the iPod could literally act as external storage. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IPod > Some versions of the iPod can serve as external data storage devices, like other digital music players. Prior to macOS 10.15, Apple's iTunes software (and other alternative software) could be used to transfer music, photos, videos, games, contact information, e-mail settings, Web bookmarks, and calendars to the devices supporting these features from computers using certain versions of Apple macOS and Microsoft Windows operating systems.
- bdavbdav 2y ago
  I’m not convinced the iPod was. Everything else was pretty terrible at that time. The iPod did it right (and arguably still does)

jackcosgrove 2y ago

I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.