5 ms·

I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. It's ultimately function over form in this case; who cares if you don't like how it lo

I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. It's ultimately function over form in this case; who cares if you don't like how it looks? I can only dream that the visibility and safety of having features like such a low hood and large bumpers would be incorporated into other vehicles (i.e., every SUV ever).

tantalor 2y ago
> It's ultimately form over function in this case Doesn't "form over function" mean the opposite of your usage? Form = appearance Function = usefulness
- garciansmith 2y ago
  Yes, I just reversed it by mistake!
- PittleyDunkin 2y ago
  I took this to mean that critiquing appearance is itself form over function.
  - tantalor 2y ago
    Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
    - phil21 2y ago
      iPod was famously both though? The click-wheel was pretty unique and worked great to make an accessible UIx for the masses. It may have been somewhat limiting in edge cases, but for normal usage I don't recall anyone complaining about it outside of hardcore tech circles.
      - tantalor 2y ago
        "No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame" Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. The click wheel was cool.
        PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        > Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device. Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
        VogonPoetry 2y ago
        I think that making the iPod mount like a filesystem would have had significant impact on other aspects of the device. There is no filesystem level abstraction over USB (or Firewire). So plugging in presents as a hard drive / block device, which then means it needs to have a filesystem. For "built-in" cross OS compatibility that means it would be have to be a FAT filesystem. If you change these decisions either a new filesystem or device driver would need to be installed for some machines. Most devices that present a FAT filesystem when plugged in stop working like they do when unplugged. i.e. the device itself and the connected computer cannot access the data at the same time. For the iPod this would mean it wouldn't be possible to play music while syncing. I think it might be possible to build a "fake" drive and FAT filesystem when plugged in, but it would take quite a bit of work and have lots of odd corner cases. For example, the user on the computer attempting to re-format the drive, perhaps with a different filesystem.
        mulmen 2y ago
    - bdavbdav 2y ago
      I’m not convinced the iPod was. Everything else was pretty terrible at that time. The iPod did it right (and arguably still does)
- jackcosgrove 2y ago
  I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.
dylan604 2y ago
for utilitarian purposes, like the guy was quoted "it gets the job done", but for soccer moms and their SUV looks are important.
- bryanlarsen 2y ago
  Safety should be even more important than both, but it obviously isn't since only the USPS trucks have a pedestrian safe design.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    If safety were more important than looks, the stilleto would be banned.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
- edm0nd 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Vehicle choice is probably much more of a personal-identity / status thing for the soccer-mom. To riff off of a Bujold quote about uniforms: "Fleet vehicles are always correct, or, if not exactly correct, clearly not the driver's fault, since they have no choice."
klik99 2y ago
Probably in the minority, but I actually like the look of them. I find so many modern car designs indistinguishable from each other. Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.
- m463 2y ago
  I think when it comes to vans they've kind of let go of traditional designs. like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Dodge-Ram-Van.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Dodge-Ra... Now they've gotten the european influence to be very square: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/2015_Ford_Transit_250_MR_148%22%2C_fR.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/2015_For... or like the european designed mercedes sprinter, very tall too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter_FedEx_2.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Mercedes...
  - laurencerowe 2y ago
    The European equivalents to the Dodge Ram Van are the smaller Transit Custom or VW Transporter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Custom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Custom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter The equivalent US trucks mostly used by FedEx and UPS are much squarer than the European designed Transit or Sprinter vans that are now replacing them. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FedEx_Express_truck.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FedEx_Express_truck....
    - yencabulator 2y ago
      Ram Promaster is a rebranded Fiat Ducato. The European equivalent of it is thus a Fiat Ducato. UPS uses plenty of Promasters.
      - laurencerowe 2y ago
        The Fiat Ducati / Ram Promaster is another Transit / Sprinter class van but the linked image with the “traditional design” in the post I responded to was of an older, smaller Dodge Ram Van. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram_Van https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram_Van I was trying to point out that the Transit/Sprinter/Ducati class vans are replacing the larger and far more boxy FedEx and UPS vans like this: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UPS_package_car.jpg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UPS_package_car.jp...
duskwuff 2y ago
> I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. Especially since the old LLVs were pretty ugly in their own way. We've just gotten used to seeing them over the last 38 years.
tbone802 2y ago
[dead]
andrewflnr 2y ago
Well, they're mostly not qualified to comment on the function, are they?
stackedinserter 2y ago
Would you wear the same cloths but in clown colours?
techjamie 2y ago
The low hood is almost definitely to help prevent scraping mailboxes and other objects, but especially mailboxes. My dad was a rural USPS carrier that used his own vehicle, and despite him having been an excellent driver with no accidents on record in his life, he still ended up swapping minor paint with mailboxes a few times. Can't imagine how often it happens across the country.
- reaperducer 2y ago
  The low hood is almost definitely to help prevent scraping mailboxes and other objects, but especially mailboxes. The USPS states that it's to keep from hitting pedestrians.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
8ytecoder 2y ago
Subarus use a boxer engine that drastically increases the visibility. I have a short torso with long legs and finding a car where I felt comfortable with visibility was a priority for me. I settled on the Subaru Impreza 10 years ago. Still has the best visibility of all the cars I’ve driven. I’d expect EVs to also have better visibility - may be eventually - since they can drop the height of the hood as well.
- potato3732842 2y ago
  They're just as tall as anything these days.
browningstreet 2y ago
A few ideas: 1) it kinda resembles Le Car 2) the junk in the frunk 3) and plus that extra forward bumper looks a bit like a telemark ski binding clip, and those ski folk never really looked especially smooth 4) it came out during DeJoy’s tenure, so it’s easy to imagine this is actually a shaming design 5) there are some very cute and charming EV designs out for Amazon FedEx UPS right now, and this isn’t up to the standard of those more forward looking (and admittedly bulbous but “of our time”) designs. 6) we’ll have to live, culturally, with this identity for a while. Seems a bit “meh”. I can see it now.. Kevin James as a future sitcom postal carrier and he will have a whole extra stage set up so he can have scenes in the enormous front cab of this thing. A la Art Carney as Ed Norton from the Honeymooners. We’ll get to visit the monstrosity during future Universal Studio backlot tours.
EasyMark 2y ago
But it's okay to call them ugly. People get used to a certain look of things and then you introduce something that look like what an 8 year old would draw (this mail truck, Musk's cybertruck) and you'll get some flack. It's utterly meaningless in the end, and just bar talk. If these are reliable and make the postal workers' lives better I'm all for it, but they are imo ugly as sin.
euroderf 2y ago
For an institution that was the origin of the term "going postal", it's a wonderfully human-oriented design.

tantalor 2y ago

> It's ultimately form over function in this case Doesn't "form over function" mean the opposite of your usage? Form = appearance Function = usefulness

garciansmith 2y ago
Yes, I just reversed it by mistake!
PittleyDunkin 2y ago
I took this to mean that critiquing appearance is itself form over function.
- tantalor 2y ago
  Oh. What does that even mean? Saying something is "form over function" is not derogatory. Lots of great inventions prioritize form over function (iPod comes to mind).
  - phil21 2y ago
    iPod was famously both though? The click-wheel was pretty unique and worked great to make an accessible UIx for the masses. It may have been somewhat limiting in edge cases, but for normal usage I don't recall anyone complaining about it outside of hardcore tech circles.
    - tantalor 2y ago
      "No wireless? Less space than a Nomad? Lame" Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. The click wheel was cool.
      - PittleyDunkin 2y ago
        > Seriously though, the iTunes integration and cross platform compatibility kind of sucked. It would have been much more useful if you could just mount it like a hard drive without special library management software. I very much preferred this, actually. file management is really annoying compared to custom-built software with all the tagging etc built-in. Subjective, obviously, but I really miss that every time I'm managing music on linux or windows and get frustrated when labeling invariably changes (even if only subtly) when moved to a device. Granted, itunes could have also done a much better of unifying the tagging etc with the files to avoid this entire fiasco.
      - VogonPoetry 2y ago
        I think that making the iPod mount like a filesystem would have had significant impact on other aspects of the device. There is no filesystem level abstraction over USB (or Firewire). So plugging in presents as a hard drive / block device, which then means it needs to have a filesystem. For "built-in" cross OS compatibility that means it would be have to be a FAT filesystem. If you change these decisions either a new filesystem or device driver would need to be installed for some machines. Most devices that present a FAT filesystem when plugged in stop working like they do when unplugged. i.e. the device itself and the connected computer cannot access the data at the same time. For the iPod this would mean it wouldn't be possible to play music while syncing. I think it might be possible to build a "fake" drive and FAT filesystem when plugged in, but it would take quite a bit of work and have lots of odd corner cases. For example, the user on the computer attempting to re-format the drive, perhaps with a different filesystem.
        mulmen 2y ago
  - bdavbdav 2y ago
    I’m not convinced the iPod was. Everything else was pretty terrible at that time. The iPod did it right (and arguably still does)
jackcosgrove 2y ago
I think it's a misquote of the phrase "Form ever follows function", commonly attributed to architect Louis Sullivan. It's an odd sentence structure, where the leader comes second in the phrasing, that trips people up.

dylan604 2y ago

for utilitarian purposes, like the guy was quoted "it gets the job done", but for soccer moms and their SUV looks are important.

bryanlarsen 2y ago
Safety should be even more important than both, but it obviously isn't since only the USPS trucks have a pedestrian safe design.
- dylan604 2y ago
  If safety were more important than looks, the stilleto would be banned.
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
edm0nd 2y ago
[flagged]
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
Terr_ 2y ago
Vehicle choice is probably much more of a personal-identity / status thing for the soccer-mom. To riff off of a Bujold quote about uniforms: "Fleet vehicles are always correct, or, if not exactly correct, clearly not the driver's fault, since they have no choice."

klik99 2y ago

Probably in the minority, but I actually like the look of them. I find so many modern car designs indistinguishable from each other. Cars such a narrow range of design that's considered "good aesthetics" that everything looks so uniform.

m463 2y ago
I think when it comes to vans they've kind of let go of traditional designs. like https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Dodge-Ram-Van.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/11/Dodge-Ra... Now they've gotten the european influence to be very square: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/2015_Ford_Transit_250_MR_148%22%2C_fR.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/37/2015_For... or like the european designed mercedes sprinter, very tall too: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Mercedes-Benz_Sprinter_FedEx_2.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/f3/Mercedes...
- laurencerowe 2y ago
  The European equivalents to the Dodge Ram Van are the smaller Transit Custom or VW Transporter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Custom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_Transit_Custom https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Transporter The equivalent US trucks mostly used by FedEx and UPS are much squarer than the European designed Transit or Sprinter vans that are now replacing them. https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FedEx_Express_truck.jpg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FedEx_Express_truck....
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    Ram Promaster is a rebranded Fiat Ducato. The European equivalent of it is thus a Fiat Ducato. UPS uses plenty of Promasters.
    - laurencerowe 2y ago
      The Fiat Ducati / Ram Promaster is another Transit / Sprinter class van but the linked image with the “traditional design” in the post I responded to was of an older, smaller Dodge Ram Van. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram_Van https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dodge_Ram_Van I was trying to point out that the Transit/Sprinter/Ducati class vans are replacing the larger and far more boxy FedEx and UPS vans like this: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UPS_package_car.jpg https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:UPS_package_car.jp...

duskwuff 2y ago

> I've read so much knocking their appearance, which is so confusing to me. Especially since the old LLVs were pretty ugly in their own way. We've just gotten used to seeing them over the last 38 years.

tbone802 2y ago

[dead]

andrewflnr 2y ago

Well, they're mostly not qualified to comment on the function, are they?

stackedinserter 2y ago

Would you wear the same cloths but in clown colours?

techjamie 2y ago

The low hood is almost definitely to help prevent scraping mailboxes and other objects, but especially mailboxes. My dad was a rural USPS carrier that used his own vehicle, and despite him having been an excellent driver with no accidents on record in his life, he still ended up swapping minor paint with mailboxes a few times. Can't imagine how often it happens across the country.

reaperducer 2y ago
The low hood is almost definitely to help prevent scraping mailboxes and other objects, but especially mailboxes. The USPS states that it's to keep from hitting pedestrians.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

8ytecoder 2y ago

Subarus use a boxer engine that drastically increases the visibility. I have a short torso with long legs and finding a car where I felt comfortable with visibility was a priority for me. I settled on the Subaru Impreza 10 years ago. Still has the best visibility of all the cars I’ve driven. I’d expect EVs to also have better visibility - may be eventually - since they can drop the height of the hood as well.

potato3732842 2y ago
They're just as tall as anything these days.

browningstreet 2y ago

A few ideas: 1) it kinda resembles Le Car 2) the junk in the frunk 3) and plus that extra forward bumper looks a bit like a telemark ski binding clip, and those ski folk never really looked especially smooth 4) it came out during DeJoy’s tenure, so it’s easy to imagine this is actually a shaming design 5) there are some very cute and charming EV designs out for Amazon FedEx UPS right now, and this isn’t up to the standard of those more forward looking (and admittedly bulbous but “of our time”) designs. 6) we’ll have to live, culturally, with this identity for a while. Seems a bit “meh”. I can see it now.. Kevin James as a future sitcom postal carrier and he will have a whole extra stage set up so he can have scenes in the enormous front cab of this thing. A la Art Carney as Ed Norton from the Honeymooners. We’ll get to visit the monstrosity during future Universal Studio backlot tours.

EasyMark 2y ago

But it's okay to call them ugly. People get used to a certain look of things and then you introduce something that look like what an 8 year old would draw (this mail truck, Musk's cybertruck) and you'll get some flack. It's utterly meaningless in the end, and just bar talk. If these are reliable and make the postal workers' lives better I'm all for it, but they are imo ugly as sin.

euroderf 2y ago

For an institution that was the origin of the term "going postal", it's a wonderfully human-oriented design.