4 ms·

The united states of america was pretty late to the party of abolishing slavery.

taeric 2y ago
I mean, in the West, sure? Notably was not the last place in the world to do so. And debtor prisons are still a thing. As is trafficking.
wakawaka28 2y ago
I don't think you can rightly claim that the US was late to free the slaves when it happened so soon after the formation of the country, and the practice was globally accepted for thousands of years prior to that. It continued in Africa long after it was abolished in the West. One of the first wars fought by the US was over slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War Anti-slavery sentiments built up over time. Abraham Lincoln was moved by this popular book for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufferings_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufferings_in_Africa Of course these things aren't often taught in school.
- Nevermark 2y ago
  Lateness can be debated. But the US wasn't just coasting on history. And your link makes clear the Barbary form of slavery had little in common with the extreme form practiced in the US. The violent rejection of England and monarchy allowed the founders to make a dramatic break from the past. A new approach to human rights, a government of the people, for the people. Ideals broadcast and institutionalized via the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ..." All the mindful attention, negotiation and agreements, toward implementing a system explicitly establishing liberty and justice for all, adds a thick layer of criminal responsibility for the systematic exception made, to continue upholding one form of extreme injustice. The complete violation of all those principles, held dear, for one unfortunate group.
  - biorach 2y ago
    Agreed.
  - taeric 2y ago
    It is hilarious to refer to the US practice as extreme in comparison to the Barbary practices. I'm curious what makes you think that? And I am sympathetic to pushback. Many of these discussions are thinly veiled "slavery in the states wasn't bad" nonsense. Slavery in all forms is bad. Period.
    - PrismCrystal 2y ago
      It's easy to see African chattel slavery in the US as worse than the Barbary practices: European slaves of Barbary owners could be and often were ransomed out of slavery by their societies back home, but West Africans were rarely in a position to do that for abducted Africans in the US. Secondly, African chattel slavery in the US was bound up with rigid notions of blood purity, which can seem bizarre to us today, that severely hobbled the opportunities of former slaves and their descendents even after manumission.
      - wakawaka28 2y ago
        >European slaves of Barbary owners could be and often were ransomed out of slavery by their societies back home, but West Africans were rarely in a position to do that for abducted Africans in the US. Perhaps but the difference is that the West African tribes often sold the slaves to Europeans. Why would they pay a ransom to get those people back? There were certainly racist connotations associated with slaves and ex-slaves. But it seems a stretch to say that white slaves in a non-white country fared better than black slaves in a white country. This is also little-known information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_slave_owners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_slave_owners Some slave owners in the colonies and early US, maybe even the very first one, were black.
        PrismCrystal 2y ago
- PrismCrystal 2y ago
  The US is frequently called late to ending African chattel slavery because it already happened in France and England decades before, and even English conservatives were calling for an end (of various degrees of gradualness) to slavery long before American emancipation.
  - AcerbicZero 2y ago
    Which is odd, because it still hasn't actually ended in africa....
    - wredcoll 2y ago
      Why is that odd? Slavery is explicitly legal for felons in america right now. We don't typically compare our principles against the worst of history, we try to be better than that.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

I mean, in the West, sure? Notably was not the last place in the world to do so. And debtor prisons are still a thing. As is trafficking.

wakawaka28 2y ago

I don't think you can rightly claim that the US was late to free the slaves when it happened so soon after the formation of the country, and the practice was globally accepted for thousands of years prior to that. It continued in Africa long after it was abolished in the West. One of the first wars fought by the US was over slavery: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Barbary_War Anti-slavery sentiments built up over time. Abraham Lincoln was moved by this popular book for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufferings_in_Africa https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sufferings_in_Africa Of course these things aren't often taught in school.

Nevermark 2y ago
Lateness can be debated. But the US wasn't just coasting on history. And your link makes clear the Barbary form of slavery had little in common with the extreme form practiced in the US. The violent rejection of England and monarchy allowed the founders to make a dramatic break from the past. A new approach to human rights, a government of the people, for the people. Ideals broadcast and institutionalized via the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, and the Bill of Rights. "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, ..." All the mindful attention, negotiation and agreements, toward implementing a system explicitly establishing liberty and justice for all, adds a thick layer of criminal responsibility for the systematic exception made, to continue upholding one form of extreme injustice. The complete violation of all those principles, held dear, for one unfortunate group.
- biorach 2y ago
  Agreed.
- taeric 2y ago
  It is hilarious to refer to the US practice as extreme in comparison to the Barbary practices. I'm curious what makes you think that? And I am sympathetic to pushback. Many of these discussions are thinly veiled "slavery in the states wasn't bad" nonsense. Slavery in all forms is bad. Period.
  - PrismCrystal 2y ago
    It's easy to see African chattel slavery in the US as worse than the Barbary practices: European slaves of Barbary owners could be and often were ransomed out of slavery by their societies back home, but West Africans were rarely in a position to do that for abducted Africans in the US. Secondly, African chattel slavery in the US was bound up with rigid notions of blood purity, which can seem bizarre to us today, that severely hobbled the opportunities of former slaves and their descendents even after manumission.
    - wakawaka28 2y ago
      >European slaves of Barbary owners could be and often were ransomed out of slavery by their societies back home, but West Africans were rarely in a position to do that for abducted Africans in the US. Perhaps but the difference is that the West African tribes often sold the slaves to Europeans. Why would they pay a ransom to get those people back? There were certainly racist connotations associated with slaves and ex-slaves. But it seems a stretch to say that white slaves in a non-white country fared better than black slaves in a white country. This is also little-known information: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_slave_owners https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African-American_slave_owners Some slave owners in the colonies and early US, maybe even the very first one, were black.
      - PrismCrystal 2y ago
PrismCrystal 2y ago
The US is frequently called late to ending African chattel slavery because it already happened in France and England decades before, and even English conservatives were calling for an end (of various degrees of gradualness) to slavery long before American emancipation.
- AcerbicZero 2y ago
  Which is odd, because it still hasn't actually ended in africa....
  - wredcoll 2y ago
    Why is that odd? Slavery is explicitly legal for felons in america right now. We don't typically compare our principles against the worst of history, we try to be better than that.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]