4 ms·

Reform health care by returning to a free market

avgDev 2y ago
If we allowed a TRUE free market the US drug prices would collapse. If I could buy a drug from an online pharmacy in literally any other country I would be saving 90% of money. It is absolutely crazy that us Americans accept this broken system.
- grecy 2y ago
  > It is absolutely crazy that us Americans accept this broken system. Want to talk about broken systems? The US government bailed out GM for $51 billion dollars. That's billions that could have been spent on schools, or healthcare or much needed infrastructure. This month, GM spent billions on stock buybacks and millions on bonuses for execs while firing a ton of regular workers. I find it staggering Americans are not rioting in the streets. So many systems are utterly and completely broken.
  - jefftk 2y ago
    > The US government bailed out GM for $51 billion dollars. The headline number here should be ~$11B [1] -- while the US put in more than that, they also got most of it back. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBRE...
    - coredog64 2y ago
      The bailout allowed the government to impose strict conditions on GM that benefited the UAW and which they wouldn’t have gotten in a bankruptcy.
  - ChadNauseam 2y ago
    Wasn’t the GM bailout a loan that was repaid? If so, it’s not quite a 1-1 comparison to spending that much on schools
    - grecy 2y ago
      As per another comment, $11 billion was never repaid - pure bailout.
  - kbolino 2y ago
    The U.S. already spends an immense amount on schools, healthcare, and infrastructure. Our problem is not the amount spent so much as the lack of results commensurate with the cost.
- munk-a 2y ago
  Bankrupting other countries' socialized healthcare programs is an unacceptable solution. Canada already has to contend with frequent medication shortages due to the stress American health tourism puts on the system.
  - alistairSH 2y ago
    How would fixing our pricing do this? One of the following is likely to be true (or a blend of the two): 1 - The US subsidizes everybody else's lower prices by overpaying. 2 - BigPharma is taking advantage of regulatory capture in the US to charge more than a "free market" would allow. If #1 is true, and the US starts negotiating prices, that's on the other countries to figure out. Not our concern. If #2 is true, and the US starts negotiating prices (or otherwise fixes the market), great, we've removed rent seeking and freed up massive piles of money for more productive spending.
  - BeFlatXIII 2y ago
    The US is under no moral obligation to keep the healthcare of other nations in a solvent state.
- Spivak 2y ago
  > If I could buy a drug from an online pharmacy in literally any other country Is something actually stopping you from doing this? I've never tried Rx drugs but I've imported non-FDA approved sunscreen before and it went fine. I'm allowed to physically travel there, get an Rx, fill it, and take it back home. Does the online nature introduce a different hurdle?
  - someguydave 2y ago
    https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importation https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importat... No, you are not allowed to travel there and take it home, but often the border guards look the other way “ In most circumstances, it is illegal for individuals to import drugs or devices into the U.S. for personal use because these products purchased from other countries often have not been approved by the FDA for use and sale in the U.S.”
piva00 2y ago
Serious question because maybe I'm ignorant about it: was it ever a free market? And the follow-up question is: should it even be a free market given that healthcare is not very conducive to shopping around and price matching, it's always possible to allow private clinics while providing a decent level of care to society in general. I simply do not see how a free market healthcare will be any better.
- someguydave 2y ago
  Yes. Yes.
  - piva00 2y ago
    Care to expand on it? Not much to converse about with this kind of reply. Unless you're just an ideological parrot, then carry on.
dessimus 2y ago
Except there cannot always be a free market for healthcare. That only would works for preventative care assuming that there is enough supply that you can make a decision because there might be shortages of a specialty you need and cannot get an appointment for 6+ months. If you're significantly injured in a car accident (to use an example that does not weigh on past medical history), you do not have time, nor likely the wherewithal, to be looking up which EDs are going to be cheapest and then comparing it to their most common outcomes to similar injuries to make the informed decision to which hospital the EMTs will haul you. Rather, you will be taken to the closest available ED with availability.
- someguydave 2y ago
  The existence of some amount of emergency care should not drive the structure of the whole market
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

If we allowed a TRUE free market the US drug prices would collapse. If I could buy a drug from an online pharmacy in literally any other country I would be saving 90% of money. It is absolutely crazy that us Americans accept this broken system.

grecy 2y ago
> It is absolutely crazy that us Americans accept this broken system. Want to talk about broken systems? The US government bailed out GM for $51 billion dollars. That's billions that could have been spent on schools, or healthcare or much needed infrastructure. This month, GM spent billions on stock buybacks and millions on bonuses for execs while firing a ton of regular workers. I find it staggering Americans are not rioting in the streets. So many systems are utterly and completely broken.
- jefftk 2y ago
  > The US government bailed out GM for $51 billion dollars. The headline number here should be ~$11B [1] -- while the US put in more than that, they also got most of it back. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBREA3T0MR20140430/ https://www.reuters.com/article/us-autos-gm-treasury-idUSBRE...
  - coredog64 2y ago
    The bailout allowed the government to impose strict conditions on GM that benefited the UAW and which they wouldn’t have gotten in a bankruptcy.
- ChadNauseam 2y ago
  Wasn’t the GM bailout a loan that was repaid? If so, it’s not quite a 1-1 comparison to spending that much on schools
  - grecy 2y ago
    As per another comment, $11 billion was never repaid - pure bailout.
- kbolino 2y ago
  The U.S. already spends an immense amount on schools, healthcare, and infrastructure. Our problem is not the amount spent so much as the lack of results commensurate with the cost.
munk-a 2y ago
Bankrupting other countries' socialized healthcare programs is an unacceptable solution. Canada already has to contend with frequent medication shortages due to the stress American health tourism puts on the system.
- alistairSH 2y ago
  How would fixing our pricing do this? One of the following is likely to be true (or a blend of the two): 1 - The US subsidizes everybody else's lower prices by overpaying. 2 - BigPharma is taking advantage of regulatory capture in the US to charge more than a "free market" would allow. If #1 is true, and the US starts negotiating prices, that's on the other countries to figure out. Not our concern. If #2 is true, and the US starts negotiating prices (or otherwise fixes the market), great, we've removed rent seeking and freed up massive piles of money for more productive spending.
- BeFlatXIII 2y ago
  The US is under no moral obligation to keep the healthcare of other nations in a solvent state.
Spivak 2y ago
> If I could buy a drug from an online pharmacy in literally any other country Is something actually stopping you from doing this? I've never tried Rx drugs but I've imported non-FDA approved sunscreen before and it went fine. I'm allowed to physically travel there, get an Rx, fill it, and take it back home. Does the online nature introduce a different hurdle?
- someguydave 2y ago
  https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importation https://www.fda.gov/industry/import-basics/personal-importat... No, you are not allowed to travel there and take it home, but often the border guards look the other way “ In most circumstances, it is illegal for individuals to import drugs or devices into the U.S. for personal use because these products purchased from other countries often have not been approved by the FDA for use and sale in the U.S.”

piva00 2y ago

Serious question because maybe I'm ignorant about it: was it ever a free market? And the follow-up question is: should it even be a free market given that healthcare is not very conducive to shopping around and price matching, it's always possible to allow private clinics while providing a decent level of care to society in general. I simply do not see how a free market healthcare will be any better.

someguydave 2y ago
Yes. Yes.
- piva00 2y ago
  Care to expand on it? Not much to converse about with this kind of reply. Unless you're just an ideological parrot, then carry on.

dessimus 2y ago

Except there cannot always be a free market for healthcare. That only would works for preventative care assuming that there is enough supply that you can make a decision because there might be shortages of a specialty you need and cannot get an appointment for 6+ months. If you're significantly injured in a car accident (to use an example that does not weigh on past medical history), you do not have time, nor likely the wherewithal, to be looking up which EDs are going to be cheapest and then comparing it to their most common outcomes to similar injuries to make the informed decision to which hospital the EMTs will haul you. Rather, you will be taken to the closest available ED with availability.

someguydave 2y ago
The existence of some amount of emergency care should not drive the structure of the whole market

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]