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I'm surprised Kenji still does the horizontal cut at all. With the angled vertical cuts I find the horizontal cut entirely unnecessary. (Also a few years back I

by CarVac 2y ago

I'm surprised Kenji still does the horizontal cut at all. With the angled vertical cuts I find the horizontal cut entirely unnecessary. (Also a few years back I gave myself a nice flap avulsion doing the horizontal cut in an onion...)

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
Invest in cut-resistant gloves. The few dollars will pay for themselves in non-lost time, plus you can use them on a mandolin. NB: maybe stick a hotdog in one of the fingers to test it first.
- CarVac 2y ago
  I have them now, but's simpler to just avoid that one dangerous and unnecessary cut that proceeds towards my body instead. They taught that in Scouting, never cut towards yourself.
  - Kototama 2y ago
    You need to cut in the direction of your body in some cases (for example when carving wood). Two things to prevent injuries: a) never put any force if the material resists b) do it slowly.
    - bloopernova 2y ago
      And either learn to sharpen your knives yourself, or take them to a sharpening service. Dull knives require more force, and slip/catch more, so are more dangerous.
      - therealdrag0 2y ago
        Oft repeated, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen this actually studied in practice. And personally I suspect it’s more a clever meme by knife sellers.
      - tdeck 2y ago
        I looked into sharpening services in my city a few years back and they're like dry cleaners - every one was a mix of satisfied reviews and detailed "this person completely ruined my $600 knife" reviews. It was very off putting.
        tptacek 2y ago
        It's unlikely any sharpener is going to ruin your knife; at worst, they won't put the best possible edge on it. Your knife is probably just an inert hunk of steel. :)
        account42 2y ago
        Grinding too much of the edge does ruin the knife. Usually not the entire blade is hard enough to hold a good edge.
        tptacek 2y ago
        It's a fair point, but how likely do you think it is that any knife sharpening service is actually going to do that?
      - rhinoceraptor 2y ago
        The trick I use for doing freehand sharpening is to color the bevel with a sharpie, that will show you if your angle is correct. You don't need a lot of stones, I just have one Sharpal double sided diamond stone, and then I move to a leather strop with 1 micron diamond emulsion compound. Another very useful thing is an inexpensive jeweler's loupe so you can actually diagnose issues like not having removed the burr.
    - dylan604 2y ago
      > for example when carving wood I've watched a lot of shows about the tools used for building log cabins in the pioneer days. I don't even know the names of them, but the tool for taking the bark off the tree by pulling the knife to you as you sit on the log is crazy. Also, the one where you straddle the log and swing the blade towards you between your legs is right up there too. Yet, I can't think of any way of making them better without using power tools.
      - jcoby 2y ago
        Drawshave or drawknife and adz. The drawknife is the safer of the two by far. It’s fairly hard to cut yourself when your whole body is moving the same direction. Similar to using a paring knife in your palm facing your thumb. The adz however you just have to have good aim or pay the consequences!
        JamesSwift 2y ago
        Haha, jinx : )
      - JamesSwift 2y ago
        Draw knife. As long as you are leaning instead of pulling its relatively safe. Same as its safe to pare by contracting your hand muscles instead of pushing a knife toward yourself.
        SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
        Draw knives are even safer than paring knives: the handles are placed such that they're closer to you than the blade, it's extremely difficult to get your chest far enough forward that it could contact the blade without a very large chest.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
- resource_waste 2y ago
  Another thing to get out, another thing to clean, another thing to put away. All because we want to chew less. (I suppose nice texture too)
  - ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
    Just always keep them on and never wash them. Bonus: immunity to papercuts forever.
- bloopernova 2y ago
  My standard housewarming gift is cut gloves and a pack of nitrile gloves to put over them. The nitrile gloves are so you don't have to wash the cut gloves so often.
  - account42 2y ago
    Do people actually use them? Seems too much of a hassle unless you are in a professianl kitchen and cutting all day. IME kitchen knife injuries are just not common or severe enough to warrant something like that.
tptacek 2y ago
The weirder thing for me is that he makes the horizontal cut after the vertical cuts --- in fact, most cooks I've seen dicing onions do that --- and it seems completely backwards. It's safe and easy to make the horizontal cut on an intact onion half, but much harder after it's been cut up vertically.
- momoschili 2y ago
  making the single horizontal cut first makes every vertical cut after more difficult to perform without harming the structure of the onion. technique and a sharp knife enable the horizontal cut second to be vastly superior to doing it first.
  - tptacek 2y ago
    I'm not sure I understand. My knives are razor sharp (I keep a Shapton 1000 and 4000 on my counter along with a strop, my daily driver is a carbon steel I have to wipe down every time I cut a vegetable). They sail through the onion, but the sliced-up onion still splays out to both sides when I make the horizontal cut, and if you watch cooks doing it, it happens there too. What harm am I doing to the structure of the onion by doing it in the "wrong order"? They're the same cuts. The difference seems to be that in my order, the onion stays more stationary. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a reason everyone is doing it this way, because it's kind of clearly more annoying than the way I'm doing it? (I'm just nerding out on this).
    - CarVac 2y ago
      I still don't get why you need the horizontal cut at all. The diagram at the bottom of the blog post shows how unnecessary it is when you do the vertical cuts at a narrow range of angles like that (which I have been doing for a while now).
      - foretop_yardarm 2y ago
        I’m sure I’ve seen a clip of some tv chef saying it is unnecessary. Maybe Jacques Pépin but not sure.
momoschili 2y ago
angling the horizontal cut down is a good way to handle this. The horizontal cut is mostly only necessary for the lower sides of the onion anyways.
aidenn0 2y ago
While narrating, Kenji says that he doesn't do the angled cuts at all, but it was an interesting math problem.

by CarVac 2y ago

ImPostingOnHN 2y ago

Invest in cut-resistant gloves. The few dollars will pay for themselves in non-lost time, plus you can use them on a mandolin. NB: maybe stick a hotdog in one of the fingers to test it first.

CarVac 2y ago
I have them now, but's simpler to just avoid that one dangerous and unnecessary cut that proceeds towards my body instead. They taught that in Scouting, never cut towards yourself.
- Kototama 2y ago
  You need to cut in the direction of your body in some cases (for example when carving wood). Two things to prevent injuries: a) never put any force if the material resists b) do it slowly.
  - bloopernova 2y ago
    And either learn to sharpen your knives yourself, or take them to a sharpening service. Dull knives require more force, and slip/catch more, so are more dangerous.
    - therealdrag0 2y ago
      Oft repeated, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen this actually studied in practice. And personally I suspect it’s more a clever meme by knife sellers.
    - tdeck 2y ago
      I looked into sharpening services in my city a few years back and they're like dry cleaners - every one was a mix of satisfied reviews and detailed "this person completely ruined my $600 knife" reviews. It was very off putting.
      - tptacek 2y ago
        It's unlikely any sharpener is going to ruin your knife; at worst, they won't put the best possible edge on it. Your knife is probably just an inert hunk of steel. :)
        account42 2y ago
        Grinding too much of the edge does ruin the knife. Usually not the entire blade is hard enough to hold a good edge.
        tptacek 2y ago
        It's a fair point, but how likely do you think it is that any knife sharpening service is actually going to do that?
    - rhinoceraptor 2y ago
      The trick I use for doing freehand sharpening is to color the bevel with a sharpie, that will show you if your angle is correct. You don't need a lot of stones, I just have one Sharpal double sided diamond stone, and then I move to a leather strop with 1 micron diamond emulsion compound. Another very useful thing is an inexpensive jeweler's loupe so you can actually diagnose issues like not having removed the burr.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    > for example when carving wood I've watched a lot of shows about the tools used for building log cabins in the pioneer days. I don't even know the names of them, but the tool for taking the bark off the tree by pulling the knife to you as you sit on the log is crazy. Also, the one where you straddle the log and swing the blade towards you between your legs is right up there too. Yet, I can't think of any way of making them better without using power tools.
    - jcoby 2y ago
      Drawshave or drawknife and adz. The drawknife is the safer of the two by far. It’s fairly hard to cut yourself when your whole body is moving the same direction. Similar to using a paring knife in your palm facing your thumb. The adz however you just have to have good aim or pay the consequences!
      - JamesSwift 2y ago
        Haha, jinx : )
    - JamesSwift 2y ago
      Draw knife. As long as you are leaning instead of pulling its relatively safe. Same as its safe to pare by contracting your hand muscles instead of pushing a knife toward yourself.
      - SAI_Peregrinus 2y ago
        Draw knives are even safer than paring knives: the handles are placed such that they're closer to you than the blade, it's extremely difficult to get your chest far enough forward that it could contact the blade without a very large chest.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
resource_waste 2y ago
Another thing to get out, another thing to clean, another thing to put away. All because we want to chew less. (I suppose nice texture too)
- ImPostingOnHN 2y ago
  Just always keep them on and never wash them. Bonus: immunity to papercuts forever.
bloopernova 2y ago
My standard housewarming gift is cut gloves and a pack of nitrile gloves to put over them. The nitrile gloves are so you don't have to wash the cut gloves so often.
- account42 2y ago
  Do people actually use them? Seems too much of a hassle unless you are in a professianl kitchen and cutting all day. IME kitchen knife injuries are just not common or severe enough to warrant something like that.

tptacek 2y ago

The weirder thing for me is that he makes the horizontal cut after the vertical cuts --- in fact, most cooks I've seen dicing onions do that --- and it seems completely backwards. It's safe and easy to make the horizontal cut on an intact onion half, but much harder after it's been cut up vertically.

momoschili 2y ago
making the single horizontal cut first makes every vertical cut after more difficult to perform without harming the structure of the onion. technique and a sharp knife enable the horizontal cut second to be vastly superior to doing it first.
- tptacek 2y ago
  I'm not sure I understand. My knives are razor sharp (I keep a Shapton 1000 and 4000 on my counter along with a strop, my daily driver is a carbon steel I have to wipe down every time I cut a vegetable). They sail through the onion, but the sliced-up onion still splays out to both sides when I make the horizontal cut, and if you watch cooks doing it, it happens there too. What harm am I doing to the structure of the onion by doing it in the "wrong order"? They're the same cuts. The difference seems to be that in my order, the onion stays more stationary. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure there's a reason everyone is doing it this way, because it's kind of clearly more annoying than the way I'm doing it? (I'm just nerding out on this).
  - CarVac 2y ago
    I still don't get why you need the horizontal cut at all. The diagram at the bottom of the blog post shows how unnecessary it is when you do the vertical cuts at a narrow range of angles like that (which I have been doing for a while now).
    - foretop_yardarm 2y ago
      I’m sure I’ve seen a clip of some tv chef saying it is unnecessary. Maybe Jacques Pépin but not sure.

momoschili 2y ago

angling the horizontal cut down is a good way to handle this. The horizontal cut is mostly only necessary for the lower sides of the onion anyways.

aidenn0 2y ago

While narrating, Kenji says that he doesn't do the angled cuts at all, but it was an interesting math problem.