4 ms·

And they conquered Crimea in 2014--partially, if I remember right, to get a port that doesn't freeze over in the winter, something they have wanted for literall

And they conquered Crimea in 2014--partially, if I remember right, to get a port that doesn't freeze over in the winter, something they have wanted for literally hundreds of years.

ceejayoz 2y ago
They already had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Novorossiysk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Novorossiysk for that.
- eru 2y ago
  Yes, but Sevastopol is a better port, and any naval position in the Black Sea is less secure, when you don't control Crimea yourself. (Russia got into more trouble than it was worth it, even by their own standards, I'd say. And that's not even getting into the moral dimensions.)
int_19h 2y ago
To be more precise, they already had the port, but were afraid to lose it to the new government of Ukraine. This is also a big reason why Crimea, by and large, supported annexation - it has very large proportions of the population that are either active or retired Soviet/Russian navy.
- eru 2y ago
  The Russia Empire and the Soviet Union ran concerted efforts to Russianise the population of Crimea by various means, like moving in ethnic Russians, removing the locals (to put it mildly) etc.
  - aguaviva 2y ago
    removing the locals (to put it mildly) etc. Virtually the entire indigenous and otherwise non-Slavic population (some 30 percent of the total population of the peninsula) to be precise, according to this graph: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Ethnic_Population_of_Crimea_18th%E2%80%9321st_century.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Ethnic_P...
    - int_19h 2y ago
      The original Russian colonization of Crimea brought in many Ukrainians as well, though, so that alone did not make it lean Russian so strongly by itself. The naval facilities in Sevastopol, though, meant a lot of military personnel with their families from all over the country would come and settle in the city, and that specifically tilts the popular opinion there today strongly towards imperial Russian irredentism.
- casenmgreen 2y ago
  > This is also a big reason why Crimea, by and large, supported annexation On what basis is this claim made?
casenmgreen 2y ago
I think the underlying drive was more visceral than practical. "Ukraine is ours."

And they conquered Crimea in 2014--partially, if I remember right, to get a port that doesn't freeze over in the winter, something they have wanted for literally hundreds of years.

ceejayoz 2y ago

They already had https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Novorossiysk https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_of_Novorossiysk for that.

eru 2y ago
Yes, but Sevastopol is a better port, and any naval position in the Black Sea is less secure, when you don't control Crimea yourself. (Russia got into more trouble than it was worth it, even by their own standards, I'd say. And that's not even getting into the moral dimensions.)

int_19h 2y ago

To be more precise, they already had the port, but were afraid to lose it to the new government of Ukraine. This is also a big reason why Crimea, by and large, supported annexation - it has very large proportions of the population that are either active or retired Soviet/Russian navy.

eru 2y ago
The Russia Empire and the Soviet Union ran concerted efforts to Russianise the population of Crimea by various means, like moving in ethnic Russians, removing the locals (to put it mildly) etc.
- aguaviva 2y ago
  removing the locals (to put it mildly) etc. Virtually the entire indigenous and otherwise non-Slavic population (some 30 percent of the total population of the peninsula) to be precise, according to this graph: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Ethnic_Population_of_Crimea_18th%E2%80%9321st_century.png https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6a/Ethnic_P...
  - int_19h 2y ago
    The original Russian colonization of Crimea brought in many Ukrainians as well, though, so that alone did not make it lean Russian so strongly by itself. The naval facilities in Sevastopol, though, meant a lot of military personnel with their families from all over the country would come and settle in the city, and that specifically tilts the popular opinion there today strongly towards imperial Russian irredentism.
casenmgreen 2y ago
> This is also a big reason why Crimea, by and large, supported annexation On what basis is this claim made?

casenmgreen 2y ago

I think the underlying drive was more visceral than practical. "Ukraine is ours."