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NATO needs the US a lot more than the US needs NATO. It wasn't always this way, but today we really don't get anything out of being allied with a deindustriali

NATO needs the US a lot more than the US needs NATO. It wasn't always this way, but today we really don't get anything out of being allied with a deindustrialized and demilitarized Europe that is currently doing its absolute best to provoke an irrational and unstable neighboring world power.

guiraldelli 2y ago
I might be mistaken, but as far as I remember, there were NATO troops (that were not US troops) in Afghanistan, for decades, not because any European country declared war to Afghanistan. I am not expert in history, but I cannot recall Europeans using US troops in an active war since creation of NATO. The opposite can be said in this century, though. I do not deny that having the back of US, that has possibly the biggest military in the world, is favourable for European countries. But I am absolutely tired of this discourse that NATO only benefits the others, and that USA doesn't get any benefit from it. It is beneficial for all parts, and that is the reason it is an alliance. And USA has used it for its benefit for quite long; thus, it is not unreasonable that allies might rely on its help. Besides, it is beneficial for USA to keep Europe stable and in peace — most clearly, for macro-economic reasons.
- peepeepoopoo91 2y ago
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  - guiraldelli 2y ago
    In the last ten years, USA more than doubled the imports from EU [1], mostly machinery and vehicles, as well as other manufactured (i.e., industrialised) products such as chemicals. In average, there is 200 billion USD/year [2]unbalance between imports from and exports to EU. Now, imagine a war breaking in Europe, and overnight medicine and machinery [3] lacking in USA. And those are products that need know-how, it is not something that any government can solve soon. Besides the 800 billion USD suddenly removed from the economy. For better or for worse, we are all interdependent. And no matter how much we want to believe we can simply show a middle finger to our allies when it is convenient for us, the reality is that the interdependence in the real world, not in the demagogic one of political nonsense discourses, is a fact. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=USA-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [2]: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html [3]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:EU_most_exported_goods_to_the_United_States,_2023.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

guiraldelli 2y ago

I might be mistaken, but as far as I remember, there were NATO troops (that were not US troops) in Afghanistan, for decades, not because any European country declared war to Afghanistan. I am not expert in history, but I cannot recall Europeans using US troops in an active war since creation of NATO. The opposite can be said in this century, though. I do not deny that having the back of US, that has possibly the biggest military in the world, is favourable for European countries. But I am absolutely tired of this discourse that NATO only benefits the others, and that USA doesn't get any benefit from it. It is beneficial for all parts, and that is the reason it is an alliance. And USA has used it for its benefit for quite long; thus, it is not unreasonable that allies might rely on its help. Besides, it is beneficial for USA to keep Europe stable and in peace — most clearly, for macro-economic reasons.

peepeepoopoo91 2y ago
[dead]
- guiraldelli 2y ago
  In the last ten years, USA more than doubled the imports from EU [1], mostly machinery and vehicles, as well as other manufactured (i.e., industrialised) products such as chemicals. In average, there is 200 billion USD/year [2]unbalance between imports from and exports to EU. Now, imagine a war breaking in Europe, and overnight medicine and machinery [3] lacking in USA. And those are products that need know-how, it is not something that any government can solve soon. Besides the 800 billion USD suddenly removed from the economy. For better or for worse, we are all interdependent. And no matter how much we want to believe we can simply show a middle finger to our allies when it is convenient for us, the reality is that the interdependence in the real world, not in the demagogic one of political nonsense discourses, is a fact. [1]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=USA-EU_-_international_trade_in_goods_statistics https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php... [2]: https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html https://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c0003.html [3]: https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=File:EU_most_exported_goods_to_the_United_States,_2023.png https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...